Discrimination and Racism in the Netherlands

Hi Barbara, as in many countries, we also have a veru multi culti society.And in some cities a problem with f.e. Moroccan youngsters, who are either criminal or discriminating.
Since we have the PVV [Party For Freedom] which makes an issue of fighting against primarily Islamic immigrants, Dutch society is a bit mixed up.Cause at last 2nd Chamber of parliament -elections he did win a lot of seats, and is now 'tolerating'the new government, he is in a strong position.Hopefully it wont't last long.
But don't be afraid, always when economy is in bad shape, you see this kind of groups growing.
It isn't common sense what you read, only a minor group , also as a protest against former governments.
In common Dutchies are sensible people,living together with al nationalities present.
You are very welcome in NL, also because it is, next to the UK , the only country in EU where most of the people speak, or at least , understand English.

=So my question is how often do you honestly come across this kind of social ignorance in day to day life, and how much is it a part of the politics of the day??=
we don't live in a big city, but we live next to Amsterdam Aiport, around 100.000 inhabitants, The answer to your question;1. not at all.
2. also in the USA you have a political soap with the Tea Party, we have PVV, but we sleep well anyway, lol.
Our son is 4, and at his school, the many different nationalities are obvious. But that never has been an issue, we are one community, and have as much contact with other nationalities as we have with born Dutchies.My wife is Chinese f.e., and our neighbourhood is one big mix..
So, consider to live in Hoofddorp, close to the sea, the airport and to Amsterdam.Best wishes for your decision, greetings, Ton

Dutch people are really diplomats. They only let you know what they think if necessary. Indeed you holland is multicultural country nobody cant denied that fact. However Dutch people in general term dont get muslim people. Muslim people has weird traditions and habits for the Dutch perpespective. Dutchs dont mind whether you are from nigerio, south africa or the moon. Nonetheless when you are muslim you get a big problem. Nobody will admit this but many dutchs secretly tell you i am happy "you are not muslim". On the south of holland in Limburg. The racist headquarters had been established due to the PVV. You shall keep in mind that holland is really multicural on the harbor of Rotterdam you can see thousand of caribbean people working there to make. So racism is not by the colour of your skin or your origin. It is mainly whether you are muslim or not. Any dutch will admit this but innerly they think that Muslim shall go back or kick them out from holland. You can make a test try to wear a headscarf in your head like a muslim woman. Then you will see how hard becomes your life in holland.

Thanks so much for your anwsers. I'm glad to hear that the common areas are multicultural, and it certainly sounds more progressive than here in the U.S. It still saddens me to here of the islamic hatred. On a side, I do understand it, but not every muslim is a terrorist, and their traditions may be "weird". I've had the honor of meeting and becoming friends with a few different Islamic men and women. Most are dear hearted, and accepting people. They may call their god by a different name but the general beliefs are quite similar to the beliefs of Christians. Do either of you know of a good and honest news site there in the Netherlands I may be able to receive or view online, here in the U.S?

Indeed there are good muslim in netherlands but the statics shows the otherway around. For instance the biggest population minority in jail in the netherlands are muslims. The rest fo the minorities are not given to such violence as them. There many studios undergoing under this subject. One of the reason points religium and low level of education. On the seventies there was huge muslim immigration into the Netherlands. They came from small villages in marroco or turkish. So they didnt have any experience or work profession. Thus most of them went to the worst jobs in society such as construction and cleaning. In addition they didnt mingle with locals. Moreover they made their own guettos where they could thier language and their own culture. The consequences for this was cero tolerance and understanding from the dutch society meanwhile the other newcomers are welcomed such ans caribbean,polish,turssian,indonissian,etc. Hopefully this will have a good turning point where muslim can understand that women are allow to choose what it is best for them and dutch people accept that muslim are not longer a threat for the.

George, ur so right, my mistake, I counted Ireland to the UK, they soak me in whiskey,lol
Danmark and Malta also,but Sweden and Finland not as much as us Dutchies.

As a Cuban you can tell, that the major problem is that a lot of people in NL don't look further than the outside,Wilders, the leader of the PVV has a Jewish Hungarian wife,
and he lived for a year in a Kibbutz in Israel.His funds come from Jewish bankers and orgnisations in f.e. USA. Why do you think he went to NY to protest against the mosque in NY , near Ground Zero.He was invited there.
It is so easy to pick a group and make them subject of discrimination.So with his background he picked Muslim.The problems with Moroccan youth, and Antillians is mainly concentrated in the cities, not the inland.Some people need a group, to make subject of their fustrations.
I have a Turkish'brother',for 40 yrs,I grew up with Turkish people coming at my mothers house, she teached them Dutch and helped them. A [Dutch] girlfriend of mine and her[Algerian] husband are muslim. So what, they are human beeings, believe is of no importance. I have many friends from all kind of countries, I lived for 2 weeks amongst Beduin in the Sinai.Great time.I don't judge people on colour or believe, I love to go to my China family-in-law.China is a lovely country , with great people. I don't agree with the Chinese politics, but that is not an issue amongst the common Chinese, they 're used to it, and don't bother the government.
So I think I'm a globalist.
And a majority of the Dutch see the problems with some minorities, but you'll find that in any country, anywhere on the world.

As a Dutch you must realize some facts "antilles" are dutch citizens because they are coming from Dutch islands. They are 70% of the workers in port of Rotterdam. So they are entitled by law to get all the benefits from social health care meanwhile the Muslim are by they own. You shall look on to data about criminality which minority groups are given to violence. You must remember what had happened in the past with some Dutch politicians killed by Muslims. That's why Dutch people do not like Muslim. Perhaps you are the exception from the majority. A few days ago i saw how they treat marocons women in a school. The Dutch professors told them they wore a towel in her head. Concerning marriages between Dutch and Muslim are really low percentage among the rest of the minorities. You can help me also to find how many member of dutch football team are coming from muslin fathers. This is enormous problem to solve. Dutch society must help and treat mulism as citizens. Currently they want to increase regulations for immigrants in the Netherlands. The PVV, VVD and CDA are working harder to make immigrants laws more difficult and complicated for them. Reality is quite different from ideal of society. Dutch people do minds when you are muslim. Otherwise you can see t.v how pvv and vvd members talks about muslim. You can vote so you can make the difference

Do you know that the Antilles since this month are just for a little bit 'Dutch', since Curacao, Sint Maarten and Aruba, are separate states in our Kingdom, Saba, ST.Eustatius and Bonaire 'special cities'within the Kingdom.Using US Dollar as currency.The other 3 will use the new Caribean Gulden,instead of the Antillian Gulden.A bit comparable with Britsh Commonwealt.
They still have Dutch nationality, and can vote at European elections.
About Dutch football; there are more foreigners playing in the Eredivisie , than Dutch,and by Dutch I mean everyone with Dutch passport.
If you look at footbaal, you'll see it doesn't maater where you come from, you're part of the team.
And the same with all people in NL, you belong to us.
I disagree totally with you, that a majority of the Dutch are against muslim.
Perhaps it looks like that, but it also depends which newspaper you read...
I don't think this government will survive after Sinterklaas....

Tom Bakker , your approach is pretty unrealistic i will invite you to go hear what the dutch people say secretely when foreigners are not around about muslims. Dutch people are opened mind to immigration except muslims. This is based on stats concerning the criminal popolation in holland, most of them are muslim from second generation. The Dutch goverment is paying a lot for it. Some neighbourhoods in Amsterdam and Rotterdam are muslim guettos where you can only hear their language and not dutch. Over there you have rates of criminality and vandalizing. Why this particular group after being brought up in holland with all the good education from this country have done so. Can you explain me? Why muslim women are not allow to go out to work everinthing come to one point religium. I have good muslim friend and classmates but i can not understand many rules they have for women. how would you call that "cultural differences". Why woman according to the koran can not undercover themselves. Many dutch people has confesed this to me. With great sadness and insatisfaction. i have told them i can understand too.

As I pointed out, or tried to, problems with criminality is FOCUSSED on Moroccan youngsters, and if you want to believe some newspapers, it is a national problem.It's not, in most parts of NL.Yes in the bigger cities, it is a problem, because also of the concentration of nationalities.Which form groups, and those groups could turn to criminal behaviour.
I never have seen or read about special problems with Moroccan [or other nationality],youngsters in our city, not more than with Dutch youngsters.

About the muslim girl and wives, yes that is a integration problem, and a matter of traditional living , and practicing the believe. But there are also many Muslims , that are westernised.
Perhaps the people you speak to, are from the regions with problems, or only know what they read in a newspaper, or on tv.
It doesn't bother me if the caissiere in the supermarket is wearing a shawl on her hair, it is her choise. I also know Dutch women who choose to be muslim, so what.
You make the problem bigger than it is, and I live in NL for 57 years....
I have friends of different believes and nationalities, from muslim to buddist, from Moroccan, Turkish,Nigerian, Chinese,European .
Perhaps you should look around better, all around NL.
Or across the border.

what an interesting article to read about the different views of things happenning in holland.

Hi Samantha, welcome to Holland.DON'T believe everything, you'll experience yourself , that Holland is a great place to live.Hope you'll find many friends soon.( I have read your call for people to meet,lol)

@Hades; means underworld.Good name!You know in the USA there are many problems with Cubans,mainly in the south,and Mexicans.Can you say than it is a national problem
?
If I tell everybody that people of one group are garbish, and criminals, it could spread.Because many people dont look further and investigate the truth of a story.
Example; A dutch boy was killed by a Dutch 'friend'' with a knife. 42 times he was stuck.
For a resaon of no importance; they were playing an occult game, called moving glasses. And the "friend"was afraid the killed boy would tell it in the village, a very Christian village.And the last year we had some very tragic stories of mothers who killed her justborn babies and either kept the bodies op the attic of her house or burried them in the garden.
1) are Dutch Christian boys killers?
2) are Dutch mothers babykillers?

I HOPE you'll experience that Dutch are still very open to foreigners, no matter the country, the colour or the believe.With respect for their way of live, even if we don't agree with their customs.
Holland always was , and IS a country that welcomes foreigners, already ages ago, f.e. since the battle between French protestants and katholics, 400 yr ago, many protestants came to NL, the Huguenotes.

I hope you all believe a born , autochtone Dutchy, when I say that , despite the ethnic or youthproblems, Holland is a meltingpot of cultures, and we are happy with it.And with that I want to close this never ending argument.

First of all Mr Tom. Before you might talk about cubans you shall learn a little bit history of Cuba. If that the case you haven learnt right. Cuban are U.S Politcal refugees. As a matter of fact They are entitled to residence permit for good as soon as foot U.S. Concerning Cuban criminality you unrealistic approach is quite far from reality. Cubans in U.S are the first minority who has more senators and CEO than the rest of minorities in U.S. Perhaps you are living in fairly tale world. I really advise to learn more about Cubans in U.S.A. Criminality is in every minority the difference lies whether the all minority goes forward or they are trap in their religion.

Dutch people do mind when you are Muslim .Many Muslim friends had had problems whenever they had told someone in holland , i am muslim, i believe in the koran. The discrimination inn holland is bellow the sourface. it is not obvious like some other countries. Just think on this how in liberal country as holland you will tollerate discrimantion against women, how would you allow arrange marriages in holland as koran says, how would you allow that women shall be destined to home. Thats why dutch people says ok, we accept but far away from us.

Polical refugee or not, it is no excuse for criminalty.We had a muslim State Secretary,Muslim mayor in Rotterdam,Muslim attorneys and lawyers.
You CLAIM you know about subsurface discrimination, because you heard from SOME muslim friends.Where do they live.

Since when are you in Holland, and why don't you speak Dutch on a Dutch forum.I don't see any postings of you in Dutch.

Discrimination is against Dutch National Law,but it works of course 2 way.
If religion has some rules, people can choose to obbey those rules or not. You can make efforts to give women with a religion,to participate more in society, but you can't force them.[except fe with particpating in the Intergration Course, because they are obliged to by law]
.That is freedom of religion, wether you like it or not.How can anyone proof a marriage is arranged.
It is very simple to make comments on Holland, but since you are part of the community, feel free to go to a muslim family, and talk to them, about what you think.

interesting topic, just shows you don't know what goes on behind closed doors.or what each individual is facing being in a new country.