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Are Chineses guys uptight or just shy?

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A friend there told me that they are really not seductive guys and that they are not comfortable when they talk to woman... Why?

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  • Daniel Otero

    posted by  in China forum 

    I am currently in Shaoxing, a small city in Zhejiang for more than 18 months. Yes, it is a conservative town.

    China needs to open up slowly and I agree, because it cannot suffer the disasters as Russia did.

    And one can disagree with a country's government and still like the people, which is my case. However, it is not treasonous to go against government if you do it in a peaceful manner and of course, you are not a spy.

    The case of Hainan sounds interesting. Could it be because they have more exposure to the outside world from tourist and they are closer to Hong Kong? In my case, many people here don't have that same exposure in the city of Shaoxing.

    Take care, Hainan sounds interesting. I have to visit it one day! Good luck on your endevors...

    Sincerely,

    Daniel

  • Go to boh tuan's profile

    posted by  in China forum 

    Hi Daniel Otero,

    Firstly, I am glad that we can "agree to disagree". In a nutshell, there arose two issues from the extrovert person. You praised him for his success, and admired his personality. I also admired his success, but look down on his behavuor with disdain. So we agreed on 50% and disagreed on the other 50%. So let it be, and let us have a beer to celebrate if we ever meet somewhere in China.

    BTW you are stationed in Zhejiang -- near Wenzhou or Hangzhou or which city or town? I go to Hainan at least twice a year sometimes three. I usually go in the month of Feb and Sept when the weather is cooler.

    The 24-year olds I met in Hainan appears more matured and speak with ease as compared with what you described in Zhejiang. Of course I am talking of the 24-year olds in Hainan talking in Mandarin or Hainanese. In Hainan, not many students can afford to go study overseas.

    So far I have not felt or known of any social constrains when in Hainan. In fact one day I was having coffee with a few Singaporeans in a not so clean local coffee shop where a cup of coffee costs 1.00 RMB (equal Singapore 21 cents), one of the locals told his friends in a very loud voice to say their Government is going to give them each serveral hundred RMB. One of his friends replied in also very loud voice to say something like this " what is that compared to the Singapore government giving to their citizen S$ 1,300.00 per person" That year Singapore government gave each citizen an one-off SGD 1,300.00. For your info, there is quite a large Hainanese diaspora in Singapore, Malaysia, and Thailand. Some of these people often went back to visit Hainan. I supposed there were not many people from Zhejiang province emigrated to the said countries in the late 19th century or earlier 20th century. Hence they don't have much contact with relatives and friends from overseas.

    Of course in Hainan, the Internet is controlled. Even Google has caved in.
    Here I agree with the China government, otherwise there will be anarchy.
    Even Singapore where I reside, after opening up 50 years from British colonial rule, still has to retained the ISD to keep the peace. Even in England or America, there is still a law on Treason on which a person can be charged, am I correct to say?

    China will take its slow time to slowly open up the country for sure, but not at a rate to be pressured by other countries. Just a reminder; China is still a Communist country. It is a irony that two Germans (or Prussians) Karl Marx, and Friedrich Engels started the Communist Movement; it ended up China and Russia practised it.

    Your new friend,
    Boh Tuan

  • Daniel Otero

    posted by  in China forum 

    Yes, you are in Singapore, but the reality of mainland China is very different and difficult. What I mean by China's leadership, is its government, that has not adequately adapted its people to the realities of the world. Even in present-day, education is a problem in China and those that have money, go study abroad. Presently, it is openning up and however, I see many of my young-adult students with many difficulties of adaptation. You take for example a young 24 year old that behaves like a 16 year old in maturity or cannot with ease speak to others. Consequently, this brings a lack and problems in communication.

    On the issue of extroverts, we will have to agree to disagree. Since most famous people around the world are usually those that are the risk takers and extroverts. And maybe, you have a point, 1 in 10.

    It is not necessarily a problem of Chinese, but of China. The more the government opens up, the easier it will be for all to communicate. You are open minded and I am open minded, but many in China suffer social constraints. In which their is a lack of freedom even from the family for people to have independence or think for themselves, or even to have open and free discussions. This in itself causes much unhappiness. And for an amazing society like the Chinese, this is unfair. China can go further when it opens up. That is the entire point.

    About being Jewish my friend, only in name and ancestry. I shy away from forms of religion, causes too many world conflicts.

    That you for your comments. I enjoy these discussions and if they don't bore you, I will gladly have them.

    I thank you ahead,

    Daniel

  • Go to boh tuan's profile

    posted by  in China forum 

    Hi Tony Tang,

    I would like to respond to your post, and let you see from my point of view. This does not mean to say my view is right and yours wrong. My take is in life there is no system or values that is 100% correct.

    There is an English saying " what you lose in the swings, you gain in the roundabouts"
    If you look at my profile the language is "English" --- as if I can only speak English --
    I can speak two Chinese dialects ( Hainanese, Hokkien), and another language known as Malay. But the filing system does not allowed the two dialects and one language to be included.

    Your statement " shyness is our mentality, you cannot change it overnight. I think the shyness has to do with our education". From this I think you are a shy person.

    Let us take a hypothetically case. Tomorrow you strike "TOTO" and win USD 10 million dollars. Do you still think you will be shy or behave shyly in a gathering of any group? I don't think you will feel shy. You will want to have more frequent gatherings because now you are the top or one of the top in the group. You call it " have big face". Westerners called it ego. Chinese don't like to lose face. Westerners don't like to lose their ego. Therefore, status, (whether money, power, or super intellect , etc)
    makes you bold. In Hainanese there is a saying "PUI TOH TAH, CHEE TOH LAT". literal translation, RICE MAKE STRENGTH, MONEY MAKE COURAGE

    As regards your comments of Chinese teaching and the teachers in the classrooms (not the universities I presume), I think for the moment it has to be that way -- teacher has nearly full authority. Look at the classrooms environment and teachers authority in the West. The teachers are stripped of nearly every authority, and their primary and secondary education is in chaose. As I always believe, there are always exceptions to the rule.

    Your statement " opposition is not welcomed". I think this is a watered-down statement. I would say "opposition is not tolerated". I think it is a policy coming down from the top policy makers. I don't think they are wrong. China has more than one billion people, and a land area of 9.5 milliom km2. If you allow 'a hundred flowers to bloom, and a thousand thoughts to contend' (Mao's saying), China will disintegrate like Russia.

  • Go to boh tuan's profile

    posted by  in China forum 

    Hi Daniel Otero,

    Nice to hear from you. From your various posts I have formed an opnion that you are someone who can accept someone who has opinion which differs from yours.
    If my conclusion is correct, then can we discuss (as opposed to debate) further on this subject, and if needs be 'agree to disagree' without confrontation, anger, or emotional hurt.
    My only pleasant surprise is that you revealed that you have Jewish roots. I thought Jewish people is generally very established traditional ly. They are very proud and believe that they are Yaweh's chosen people (take this as a passing remark, but not for disscusion here).

    Come back to our subject under discussion. You statement " The biggest problem is not shyness, my friend, is social inadequacy" I think "social adequacy" or "social inadequacy" is subjective. What is "social adequacy" in one society is not adequate in another society. What do you mean that "young men and women cannot adapt to their age group"? To me the way they interact with one another is itself the reality of adaptation. Their role model is the successful peer from their village or from their close group (if they are from the big towns).

    Regarding your statement " an extravorted person can adapt to any environment, and that is why most are successful in business". My rejoinder is that out of 1 successful there were 9 gone into oblivion. Anyway I think most Chinese will form the opnion that the extrovert successful business man is boastful -- a negative perception. But as one says if he is successful what he cares, he is honey and all the bees will come.

    Your comment " But the leadership has made the people too UPTIGHT. I am unsure of what is meant by uptight within the context here. If you can clarify and expand with an example, then I may attempt to respond in my next post.

    Your comment " Now you are prospering because ............. You see how what a difference openenness makes". I must say my prosperity is not due to openess of Singapore, but due to it's stable and not corrupt or non-repressive goverment which create an environment where I can decide how to earn and accumulate my wealth.

  • Daniel Otero

    posted by  in China forum 

    I agree with you on what you say to a certain point. The biggest problem is not shyness, my friend, is social inadequacy. Young men and women that cannot adapt to their age group since they don't have the proper role models.

    Also, an extroverted person can adapt to any environment, that is why most are successful in business. You need to have a mixture of both to make it, introvert and extrovert.

    China is coming out of this and true, China has over a 1 billion people and if you cannot adapt to the world around you, you will be unhappy. I think Chinese are a great society. Nice people, but leadership has made Chinese too uptight and shy in the last 700 years. That was no good! Because it created closure from the rest of the world. Now, China is coming out and being less shy, here is were the difference stem. Now, you are prospering because you are coming out. You see how what a difference openness makes.

    All the best. Your comments are very smart. Nice talking to you and please take care. These kinds of opinions help us know each other better and get over stereotypes.

    By the way, I am Spanish, but not Catholic, I rather say, Jewish. However, I am American born and lived in Spain. Exposure to other languages and cultures made me more open in life. If China does this slowly and surely, it will be successful.

    Cheers. Sincerely,

    Daniel

  • Go to boh tuan's profile

    posted by  in China forum 

    Hi Lorena Galvez.

    They are neither.

    I think your friend who told you that they are happened to mix with a certain group of Chinese who for various reasons behaved that way. You must realise that China's population is more than one billion people.

    Firstly, it is not a virtue in Chinese culture to seduce a lady if you have no intention of having a lasting relationship with her. Do your friend has Chinese friends who each has a wife and a mistress (second wife) living in the same house? There are Chinese men who have.

    They are really not shy, but just want to keep to a low profile; this is another virtue.
    Chinese usually look down on extroverts who talk loud, with full of self confidence, and akin to advertise themselves. Their take is that if you are really a honey the bees soon will gather around you, and people will know you are a honey. You are a Spanish, Roman Catholic? I think Jesus also taught that if you are invited to a dinner, don't sit yourself in the honoured seat. Let the host invite you to sit in the honoured chair.

    Because China has more than one billion people, I think about 90% of these people are still struggling to come out of Maslow's heirarchy of needs. Once they are out of it you will see if they are shy.

  • Tony Tang

    posted by  in China forum 

    yes we are shy, thas is right. shyness is our mentality, you can not change it over night.
    I think the shyness has to do with our eduction. we were educatited not to ask some stupid questions in the class or something similaries. the teacher has alwanys the power to lead and do everything in the class, opposition are not welcomed, so you have to learn obey the teacher, therefor we become more and more shy
    on the other hand facelosing plays a big role in our life

  • Daniel Otero

    posted by  in China forum 

    I have lived in China for 18 months. It has been changing. But the biggest problem is lack of identity and role models to follow.

    Some Chinese are very confused. Therefore, some Eastern Chinese try desperately to immitate western values. It is not amount immitation. Chinese are wonderful the way they are. It is just a matter of modifying the old ways, and keeping traditions that affect them in the past...

    Please take care,

    Daniel

  • posted by  in China forum 

    I think that if China become more open on the west it can be good but if they try to behave like people from the west, don't they lose their culture?
    China has a so rich culture that it would be really bad if they begin to lose it... Identity is really important from inhabitants of any country and if they begin to behave like western persons, they may find one day that they don't recognize themselves anymore...
    For those who live in China do you feel changes in your culture?

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