Posted in Germany forum
I just read a story on Spiegel online which shocked me: According to a new study, more than 14% of German teenagers can be considered as "anti-foreigners", while more than 5% fall into the category of the righ extreme with Nazi-tendencies.
Surprisingly, the bad reputation of foreigners seems to be higher in those regions with little foreigners (so those regions where people don't even know what they talk about!!!).
The original article is here: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,613844,00.h
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To me - this is just another example of human ignorance, but for a foreigners living in Germany, these numbers are pretty scary!
What are your opinions and personal experiences with the way Germans see foreigners?
Frank: Der Hyprocrite
posted by Ron Saxena in Germany forum
Verfassungsschutz" (the German equivalent of MI5) has been deleting data on the assorted Neonazi groups "by mistake" since 2010:
http://http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/berliner-ve
rfassungsschutz-liess-rechtsextremismus-akten-schreddern-a-8
66981.html" Germany not Racist!"- Sarcasm alert
posted by Ron Saxena in Germany forum
Germany in reality is one of the most racist Nation. Germany has one of the most homogeneous Nation, and has lowest number of Non whites. Which means, Germans literally chose people on their skin colour and ethnic kinship when selecting immigrants. Even Muslims in Germany are Whites. Had Eastern Europe not been behind Iron curtain during Wirtschaftswunder, Germany would have still been 100% White Christian Nation. Nothing wrong being White and Christian. But you should be honest about it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_ranked_by_et
hnic_and_cultural_diversity_levelAnd now add to this, draconian practices (which Germans do not see "really" racist)
1. Bewerbungsfoto
2. Sympathisch aussehen based hiring ( German Turks are much much under-represented in Corporate World than comparable groups like British pakistani. Let alone Asian American or British Indians)
3. three tier school system ( to classify primary school kids, i.e. to transfer immigrant kids to lower range Hauptschule)
4. Non ranked Universities (so that even brain drain immigrant cannot chip in, and Aryan Germans can always gain out of charm offensive)Welcome to D'land.... The liberal paradise, it is NOT.
Germany not Racist!
posted by Frank (confidential) in Germany forum
I have to contradict you here: Germany, as well as most Germans, is not inherently racist!
I have lived in 6 foreign countries, worked in several more for just a few months each, and have a foreign (Chinese, to be precise, but she won't eat dog - that's Koreans!) wife, so plenty of experience to compare.
Germans are often shy towards strangers, but generally much less discriminating than many others - as a day trip across the border to France clearly shows. For most Germans, curiosity eventually trumps fear of the unknown, and they can be very accommodating. Only a minority ( those in the unknown, as I said) are actually racist.@ Astrid / Frank
posted by Ron Saxena in Germany forum
The usual German response of moulding the (irrational) reasons for racism into (justifiable) explanations of racism. And more and more denial, obfuscation, deflection.
Same as justifying hatred for Black because German find him ugly. Hatred for Chinese because he may eat Dogs. Hatred for Indian, because he can be rapist. The real reason is: Germans do not consider racial discrimination as racism. Only race based hate crime is considered to racism (that too when absolutely underlined)
German MAINSTREAM society is extremely racist with staggeringly high rate of everyday casual racism.
Just visit Die Zeit / Die Welt (2 of the most high brow news website), and read the comments section on any immigration, emerging countries, Islam etc related articles. The most liked / recommended comment will shock you. And will provide true and honest idea of what real German society is.Surprising?
posted by Frank (confidential) in Germany forum
It isn't surprising that people are more xenophobic where there are less foreigners:
It's the irrational (but very human) fear of the unknown, coupled with horror stories from a sensationalist press.
When people actually know the strangers, this fear recedes and a (also very human) search for common things kicks in ("They are also human - just like us!!!").Colonies
posted by Frank (confidential) in Germany forum
Germany and Sweden DID have colonies.
That, though, does not add anything to the discussion, just gives a perspective of which poster to take more serious.
Born and bred in Germany, almost...
posted by NKBRD JDK in Germany forum
My wife and I walk into a Thai restaurant in Frankfurt City, hungry as usual although we just ate- whatever. This young German guy about 28 years of age approaches us and says: "Hey you can sit over here or there, wherever you like or..."My poker face stares at him and I cut him off: "Why, tell me why are you speaking English with me.. Do you assume just because I have a more tanned color than you I cannot speak German?" "Oh no, oh no! That's not what I meant, I am so sorry!" "Whatever dude; it's a problem with your society, so I don't blame ya.." Later this guy comes while I'm trying to find the chicken in my chicken fried rice and goes "Hey man sorry because of earlier, I am totally for diversity and I didn't mean it like that, I really know coloured people.. And just imagine if English had been your first language, you would have been so happy that I addressed you in such, wouldn't you? "No, I wouldn't - the British colonized us. Apart from that you cannot take the risk of assuming what I would like or not - you don't know me. If you knew me, you would also know that I was born in this City, that I grew up here and that I pay more taxes than you..." Then he walked off and I was still shaking my head towards his back. Contrast this with a few weeks in NYC in 2013: "Sorry guys, I can't tell which state I'm from b cuz I'm from Germany..." The Americans always assumed I'm American, because I'm standing with them, there in that moment. Contrast it with London, where whether you're brown or black and yellow, whether you like Wiz or Wayne, PAC or Big, you're just another person and not a spectacular. Germans are European villagers, who still have not come to terms with a globalised world. I only realized how socially weird Germans are when I started working with them in the German Team of a global company in London. All the other teams hated the German team because - although they were efficient - they were always depressed and mourning about. Every morning I would step into the office and say:" Na wie geht's, ihr scheiss Ausländer?" The look on their faces- Priceless :)
Usual German reaction
posted by Ron Saxena in Germany forum
I will dilute, obfuscate, ridicule the allegations of racism by following arguments:
- racism is everywhere
- USA is also racist (ignoring there is zillions of very successful Asian, Indian immigrants there)
- Germany never had a colony (ignoring that Luxembourg, Sweden, Singapore, Canada also did not have Colonies)
- "Where you come from".. If you come from country: X, which is typically socio-economically lower order than Germany, then I will completely judge your comment from vantage point (and audacity) of that country X.. And launch a "who are you / so are you / Pot calls the Kettle Black" attack.Seems legit. Isn't it ? That's German "Logische Denkweise"
Experiences are by definition non sharable and racism is a manipulation
posted by former expatriate in Germany forum
Hi all,
I'm a former expatriate from Ireland (lived there for 7 years) and what I've found there is somewhat different that what I've read in all the replies to this post:
First, a thousand experiences shared isn't making any change on what your experience will be: experience are an individual thing and the longer you'll remain in a place better are the chance you'll have more and more troubles added.
Second, if you don't like the country you're in or don't feel comfortable about going to another country for lots of reasons, then you should ask yourself these simple questions:
1- Why do I want to work in this country?
2- Why do I want to live in this country?
3- Will it worth the cost?
4- What will it bring to me on the human side?
5- What will it bring to me on the financial side?
6- Who will support me while I'll be there?If you don't like a country or have some fears about it, then don't go there: this fear will not bring you anything good neither to the native people who will reject you. There are 196 countries in this world, lots at war and at the moment few good for job purpose due to the man made financially orchestrated depression: we are all at war as the economy can be seen as a war of attrition. The best place to be is in your country or elsewhere with people you love doing something you like (which may be very low paid: being happy at work is completely separated from the money you'll make at).
Third, expatriates are by definition people who have left their country for reasons: whether they didn't like their country for lots of reasons, valid one (for example your country is a bureaucracy, a tax hell, a police state, corrupted to the core, madness selection for getting a job even a low paid one, family problems, ...) or they wanted to enjoy an experience outside their borders, the fact it expatriation will change your life forever.
Why?
Because it'll bring a different perspective on your own culture so it can be disturbing to go back to your own country after as you'll dislike many things there as you'll know it's possible to get something far more efficient and faster in the countries you've visited.
Because the experience maybe so enriching that at the end, you'll have a complete different perspective that your average countryman on both the world and your own country: for example, if you expatriate there is a good chance you'll work for a very big company like a multinational. There you'll have a very dominant perspective on the economy and if you've good eyes and a brain working thus are clever, synthetic and observant you'll understand their importance and influence on your country: you'll have a different perspective about the politics mistakes of your own country, the drawback of your culture in business, your culture backwardness, ...
You'll understand that they the multinationals and their stock holders are ruling the whole economy so your life: just open your food cupboard and look at the labels, who make the food? Where are the components coming from? Do the same for your medicines, your car(s), your motorway, ... You'll also understand that politicians are just a part of the show business and work for themselves and their employers in big multinationals (those who pay the campaign) not for people.
This perspective will make you understand from a complete different angle reality and it'll be disturbing: it's a completely different story that the fairy tale told to you by mainstream media. Yes, people will take you for a fool and you'll have hard time if you come back to your country because your vision and brain will have change whereas those of your loved ones will not and you'll have to explain them and convince them of turning off their TV, burn the newspaper, shut off the radio, ... and listen to you because you know first hand what you are talking about.
I talk about a French perspective as I found out during my expatriation that:
-France is an empire and work on the back of slaves exploiting their oil and resources, the US and UK do the same
-French oligarchs are ruling the country: the same occurs in every country which means a few have all the powers in hands
-Racism is a tool used by politicians for keeping us all divided: they politicians are hired by multinationals for diverting you from seeing who rules the whole economy that is the very wealthy or oligarchs. With lots of foreigners entering any country, the job market become more competitive for them as wages go south and skills go north. So who benefits from this? Not you and me, but the banks behind those gigantic companies.
-History in schools have been a fairy tale: whereas it's Spain, France, Germany, USA, UK, Japan, Russia, Italy, ... all big countries in term of economy have a past made of imperial conquests thus of murders, exploitations, slavery and a small amount of important families have run the show but the rest of your and my countries have let them do so we are all involved in the present mess.
-Food is used to control people, water and medicines too: I would advise you all to invest money to get organic food thus to get rid of pesticides and to get filtered water at the tap with reverse osmosis (water around you contain pesticides sprayed out by the food industry that is the henchman of chemistry industry), medicines are drugs and 60% of them go to the toilet thus pollute your tap water.
Once at home, I've found that:
-local employers don't care about my experience during interviews (I didn't tell them what I've just told you, and during my expatriation I've gathered a lot of skills): they know they are late timers and they don't care
-finding jobs isn't helped at all by my experience as what they want is zombies with degrees and being obedient staying for years at boring and useless jobsSo be careful before expatriating as it'll make you free but if you come back you'll start again from ground zero from a work perspective, of course you'll have a very different perspective on the world surrounding you.
mmmmm
posted by Mike Batuik in Germany forum
I personally am not taking any sides i just know that the racism is mostly directed at darker skinned people, I mean i am myself am a foreigner but i am not considered a Kanake, because only people from the south who are dark skinned people are considered Kanakes, not sure if Muslim is considered to call someone a Kanake but thats all i know.
And i have personally not seen it because I live in Switzerland, but from what i have been told and seen debating videos online about the subject points towards that kinda racism. I mean all in all it just really sucks that they just cant get along and live peacefully.