Posted in Azores forum
I am considering moving to the Azores in the near future .I am traveling to the Azores in early march and would like to meet with UK expats who may be able to introduce me to in Azores!!
Taxes and wages
posted by Sparky Spark in Azores forum
Hi;
I just changed my screen name, and I am still the same person.
If I am allowed to make a comment about taxes and wages.
If the Azores have property taxes than it is not free to live there even if I buy a house.
Further more if the wages, that can be earned there, do not cover the taxes I have to pay to live
there, than it is not a self-sustained living. This seems like a growing trend. GenerationX followed by
generationJobless followed by generationHomeless.
I think, off the grid/self-sustained living is possible nowadays.
A person from East-Europe would go to live to the Azores, not for finding himself/herself/themself in the
same situation of what they left. The little material possession, what they have, would not be up for risk.
The Azores would be a new place, isolated place. Foe an East-European it seems there is no return
from there, specially if all the money was spent on taxes. The rest of the money would be tied up in
real-estate. No jobs to earn money to pay the taxes. Real-estate property taxes would be compounding
and taking away the equity.
So right now, with these conditions the Azores for those people seems like a trap. That might be the
intention of governments.
To bring economic boom, the government would have to take initiative, or the population as a grassroot
movement would have to take an initiative. That could be no property taxes, or no property taxes for a long
period of time after purchase. As an autonomous region of Portugal, this region could do that.
I do not expect miracles. I do not expect this change. I look for possibilities on international waters.
Sincerely.Sound like a great place
posted by Sparky Spark in Azores forum
Hello Sergio;
Thank you for your post. The Azores seem to be a great place to be.
Real-estate property taxes do not sound so good. Seems like there is a price to live there
and that is a continuous price. The existence of a building code does not sound so great either.
Well, sailing is always there. That sound great. Living at the Azores, I would always keep a boat.A boat is good for lots of things: housing, transportation, business tool.
I also like hiking. I like the no freezing during winter. I like that there is geothermal activity on the islands.
Catholic religion is not foreign to me. I keep the Azores on my list. Iceland is on my list too,
but Iceland is only for a visit.Azores
posted by Sergio Paulo in Azores forum
Hello Gabor,
It's nice to see Eastern Europeans moving to the Azores! It's about time the Azores becomes more cosmopolitan!
To answer your question about building codes: yes building codes are strict now, but only for new construction. The repair/rehab of existing structures is much less stringent and, in fact, the authorities favor the repair of old structures as a way of keeping older buildings from going derelict.
And it's still relatively cheap to buy land or repair old cottages....it's done quite often in Pico island. And although it's true that labor costs are rising, for the most part, you could build a small 2-3 bedroom home for approx 100-120k euro. One newer trend that's just starting to take off is the construction of wood built homes which are much cheaper.... 40-60k euro. You can basically live off the grid if you really wanted to; there are solar panels locally available and small wind turbines, etc.
Take Pico island for example, you can easily find lots of land with old ruins on them (which are still classified as existing structures) and rebuild....other times you'll find older homes that are move-in ready but with a small plot of land for planting, etc.
Like any place, some islands will be less expensive than others. Sao Miguel and Terceira tend to be the most developed and, thus, have The large Hospitals and universities. In my experience, most foreigners love Pico, Faial and Sao Jorge....I think it has to do with how close each three of these islands are to one another. Pico and Faial are only about a 20-30 minute ferry ride across the bay. And Sao Jorge is about 1 hour ferry ride across the bay from both Pico and Faial. The water can be rough in the winter months and so there can be cancellations. Pico offers great hiking (there's an active volcano....about a 4.5 hour hike) plus great diving, fishing, and great trail trekking. Faial has a large sailing scene; it has a bustling international yachting marina where you can meet sailors from just about every corner of the world...the English have been buying up lots of old cottages here for restoration and renting.
Religion: Catholicism is the big one throughout most of the islands. You can't drive through any village without passing a church....all of which are kept in great shape. If you're an avid catholic, you'll have no trouble integrating as a lot of the village festivals are relating to some commemoration of some saint, although there are many other summer non-religious type festivals.
If sailing is you're thing, consider Faial. The scene is big there and growing.
If you decide to live in the Azores, rest assured, you won't need to lock your doors.....it still is the kind of place where everybody knows your business....and the less you have to hide, the more they'll love you.
It really is worth at least visiting. With direct flights from Portugal and even other EU nations directly from the islands. If you're planning on being self sufficient or starting a business, you should do fine...this is a place where the entrepreneur can thrive. Crime is almost non-existent. Cost of living is cheap...property taxes even cheaper. Cable and high speed internet easily available. And the pace of life is just SLOW. Depending where you live on the island you may go hours without hearing a single car pass by.
Growing industries:
Wine making (land is cheap and fertile)
Spirits (the locals love good moonshine....but I think the future is in a local Vodka.... Hasn't been done yet)......whiskey (the locals love whiskey) and beer.......there's one beer company in all of the azores and it's not even good beer).
Cheese making
Growing and selling organic is a growing trend as well.
Tourism based outfits: guided treks, sailing/boat rides, hiking, kayaking, snorkeling, diving, etc.
Real estate rental (although some islands, like Pico) are chalk full,......yet it's still a growing industry.
Food: restaurants, bars, etc......good really authentic food is hard to find...less than a handful places in Pico to find really good authentic food.Check out: www.azoresestates.co.nr
Www.picohouses.comAzores
posted by Sparky Spark in Azores forum
Hi Sergio;
I did check the data about the Azores on wikipedia. It is nice to be able to communicate with you.
I am interested about your personal experiences. I am interested about Madeira too.
You mentioned about building codes. Is there a need for building permits?
It is difficult to build in Southern-California. There has to be an environmental impact study.
There has to be blueprints. There has to be inspections even during the building process. So there is
a charge each time.What I see in the world is that generationX is fallowed by generation jobless. Soon it is going to be
generation homeless.Seems like Bosnia has a generation 'enough of war'.
There might be a large EU population who had enough cold (Ukraine, Estonia, Poland).
Hungary is cold too during winters. (Ukraine is not EU yet)My experience is that it is easier to live in warm climate. There may be an influx of people from there.
Another new trend is seasteading with a marine based business. That is in very early stage.
Seasteading is something like living on a floating structure in international waters or even outside of
the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ).The Azores are not for everyone
posted by Sergio Paulo in Azores forum
Hi Gabor,
Your attitude will get you far in whatever place you end up in the world. I worked as a cameraman for some time earlier in my life and I can day with certainty: there are a lot worse places to try and make it..... The Azores are a temperate/marine climate. It doesn't snow but it does rain quite a bit in the winter months. Average temps in the winter vary from mid 50's-mid 60's Farenheit and from high 60's - mid 80's in the Spring/summer/fall. It does get damp in the winter so plan to dress in layers and build a place or install a heating system in the older homes. Most older homes were stone built with no heating system requirements and so mold grows easily; I have family members that have addressed this problem simply by installing fireplaces; I've noticed the Irish and English have the same issues and the way they take care of that is by keeping the house dry. With new construction this is not an issue since new building codes require both insulation and heating systems.
I like to compare the Azores to Ireland without all the rain.
If a what you're looking for is year-round warm temps in the 70's-80's Farenheit, then Madeira island might suit you better; they have a subtropical climate and a great tourism based economy; the English have been settling there for years.
The Azores
posted by Sparky Spark in Azores forum
Hello Sergio;
Your posts are very helpful. Thank you.
I live in the USA. For long time I had lived in southern-California.
To be closer to my family, recently I moved to Florida. The Azores would be even closer.
The other thing is: for my family members in the USA the visas are valid for 90 days.
I am hoping that in the Azores, the time to reside would be unlimited for EU member
country citizens. I also have an EU member country's (Hungary) citizen passport.
.
I like to sail. I am planning to get into the sailing life more and more. The Azores would be
an interesting family base for me. I am willing to learn Portuguese and I am willing to participate in
church service too. I believe these are helpful in the integration process.
.
One thing would be my interest is business. Some slow type of business. Are there any olive orchards
on these island? I will check after these olive tree things and the climate.
.
So, I had lived in California for 20 years. I lived there in the desert, and for longer time I had lived
at the coastal area (San Diego - ish). Hawaii is close (only 3600 nautical miles of ocean).
Hawaii was developed by many different business interest, but now, it is strongly established.
I see something like this could be done to the Azores. It could become the European Hawaii.
It would take lots of investment. All I can do now is to put my two cents in.
.
California has a kind of hippy-ish counter culture, and the surfer counter culture. I am familiar
with both. The hippy-ish culture is about self reliance and growing their own food and socially self-reliant.
There are similar groups in Europe too. I have to mention that I do not want to start a hippy colony.
.
I have unusual ideas about health care. I have worked on the health care field (hospitals) for 25 years.
I think I can provide the basic health care that I care to have. The catastrophic kind of situations in health
care are better done in bigger communities, but even there the outcome is not very bright.
.
I have some ideas, and I do not think I should change the world. I think I should just fit in. May be the Azores
for a while.The Azores is Not for Everyone
posted by Sergio Paulo in Azores forum
Mr. Newhouse and Mr. Moore,
I'd like to congratulate you both on your "worldly" and objective perspectives regarding your experiences of the Azores. DISCLAIMER: I was born in Pico Island and have lived there off and on throughout various periods of my life. I'm now in my mid thirties and have been living in the U.S. for the majority of my life. My parents emigrated in the early 80's looking for a "better" life abroad given the economic hardships of the time.
I'm always interested in what non-Azoreans have to say about my little piece of 'paradise'...... having family there, I am by default, still connected with that culture, BUT....having lived and traveled abroad to many other parts of the world, I like to think that I can offer a clear picture of what those islands have to offer.......
Both of you are spot on. It is true that we Azoreans are VERY insular.....I like to blame geography but, truth be said, it is also very much a part of our culture.....to be closed off and unaccepting of outsiders....that being said, this insularity that I speak of has been a defensive mechanism for locals for centuries. History will tell us that the Azores were composed of portuguese settlers, then later by the Flemish, the Dutch, the Spanish and so on..... It's important to note that most of this insularity has been slowly disappearing as the new generation of kids is MUCH more cosmopolitan in their view of outsiders. Today's young people are mostly educated enough to be much more open to speaking and be accepting of outsiders.
The economy: Eco-tourism/rural tourism is the one area that is growing fast. A lot of it is being done by ex-pats (Germans, Swiss, French, Dutch). Other than tourism, there is little else the Azores have to offer in terms of work opportunities. There is some demand for medical professionals in the larger and more developed islands like Terceira and Sao Miguel, but other than that there is little else.
Take Pico for example, where the most coveted jobs are things like being a Police officer, a teacher, or holding some other 'white' collar profession that is municipal in nature......'dependable' and 'stable'.....and as one can imagine, there are only so many municipal type jobs available for an island with less than 15,000 people.
Most young people are not sticking around. Most are getting their education in mainland Portugal, then emigrating in the hopes of looking for work. This leaves the Azores with the few that stick around: retirees and an ever-dwindling population of young people, whose options are limited to farming, construction, fishing and the ever-so-coveted municipal/government jobs......
Remember: the average salary for a family in the Azores runs about 800-1000 euro/month....that's not much to live on.... it's been a culture of subsistence living for hundreds of years. Bartering is still very much a part of the local culture.
If you're planning on moving to the Azores, come with a plan....start a business....or simply retire there. I've noticed many ex-pats over the years buying up land and starting vineyards. I've also noticed some locals betting on the local cheese-making business. There's also been a lot more investing in restaurants......I hope this becomes a growing trend, as this is really the only way the Azores will grow economically. Tourism and all of the ancillary growth that comes with it will become burgeoning industries in the years to come.
You have to understand the history of the Azores to really 'get' the locals: these were islands that were isolated from the rest of the world until perhaps 30 yrs ago...when fascism fell. These were people who've only recently been exposed to cable television....the internet, etc. My parents, for example, grew up when Salazar ruled with an iron fist. I hear stories of how they grew up walking to school with no shoes because they were too poor to buy any.....or when they were sick their parents would have to call the doctor to see them (who then arrived at their homes on horseback).....or how there were only one or two people on the island who had cars...everyone else road on horseback or mule...... really makes you think how insulated these people have really been.
The locals really are friendly....but as an outsider (like with most places I've visited in the world) you have to engage. ENGAGE, ENGAGE, ENGAGE! Learn to live the way they live. Integrate yourself....as hard as that may be....it the ONLY way you will be accepted into their society. They LOVE expats....who INTEGRATE and GET INVOLVED. I've had South African friends move to the Azores...they too had a hard time adjusting to the culture, and the language....so much so, that they ended up separating; the husband stayed in Pico and the wife and kids returned to South Africa......they lived in Pico over 10 years......
Caution: the healthcare system in the Azores is a joke. Albeit, the Universal healthcare model has its benefits, it is nonetheless, very poor in its administration..... not uncommon to be in long standing waiting lists for surgeries that are not immediately life-threatening, or having to fly into Lisbon to see a specialist......or having to go to one of the larger islands for an MRI or CT scan....the follow up and follow-through is simply unacceptable.
I like to joke with my family and friends that the Azores would be much better off if they annexed themselves from Portugal and then chose to become part of some other more industrious nation who actually gave a damn about investing and growing these islands to their full potential. You see...the Azores have always felt alone....there isn't a great sense of national pride from many Azoreans....many are proud of their self-reliance as islanders.
Again, if you're planning on moving to the Azores....come with a plan to invest......this is still virgin territory in many respects. Labor is cheap and willing.
There is much more to come in the history of the Azores......there is an awakening that has yet to blossom.....but it make take another generation or two to see the potential....
Azores - Eu members
posted by Sergio Paulo in Azores forum
Hi Gabor,
The Azores are considered part of the EU, as many of the large infrastructure projects are subsidized by the EU. Nevertheless, they are considered an autonomous region of the Portugal. Hope this helps.