Pubblicato in Portogallo forum
This is to continue to talk about racism in Portugal.
1- I've Studied in a couple of countries including Portugal. Many of my Graduated black colleagues in Portugal, born and raised in Portugal, never have been to Africa where suggested to go "back" to work in Africa;
2- In Portugal, the high amount of black Professionals are to be found in health business because THERE they are needed, since the white Portuguese venture themselves in less intelectually depending business. For the rest of the fields, no blacks to be found in high educational level;
3- Black people in Portugal are to be cleaners, constructors and all "lower" related jobs. You are in a way, forbidden to achieve higher goals since once you've done it, you are no longer welcome in the country. This clearly refects the idea that black people are meant to be low;
4- Yes, Portugal is a Classical country...but look what you've become?
5- While the other imperialists have already apologised for colonialism, Portugal doesn't understand why they did it, simply because Portuguese think they did good in Africa;
6- Before Independence, only the numbers of one hand of Africans were graduated. Today, billions are graduated, schools and universities are numerous in Africa and the list goes on with the improvements that were done. Moreover, today, you find a lot of people like me who DECIDED to venture themselves with their own money to study and work in the world. Me being independent to do that is not well known among the Portuguese since they think that I need their approvement to grow further than what they had "planned" for me.
7- Because of my accent, on the phone, I was told I would do good with my International Masters Degree. But once I asked to meet in person with that such important figure, he asked me if I wasn't thinking of going back to Africa. Another episode was when I approached my Professor to ask him to intervene in my favor as to find a suitable job according to my International Masters. I know that my normal Portuguese colleagues aren't as good as I am in languages, aren't as travelled as I am, don't posess a Masters, can't communicate Internationally as me, and having been a good student myself, having this Professor backing me up, I thought my future was going to be soon. It's been almost 6 months, my Professor is silent. I did send him two mails, to which he answered to one. Last week I sent him another one. DEAR FELLOW PORTUGUESE PEOPLE, do you think he will find me something special since he is a very internationally well known figure?
8- It's very common to companies reply as follows: "we are only employing Africans who want to work for us in Africa".
Now, dear world, how do you put this? I know Portuguese are running to Africa to do as good as I want to do in Portugal.
Hey Castro
pubblicato da Belinda Angelino in Portogallo forum
Hello Castro
Thanks for displaying good theories about why people and countries tend to be racist, reserved towards foreigners.
The level of tolerance indeed varies around the world. No news here.
Portugal is not the best country for highly qualified people, as you put it. The bad news is that it is becoming also worse for lower educated people since the bureaucracy forces companies/industries to relocate to other countries with less bureaucracy and a clearer systems.
Portugal is in constant need of reform. The problem is that whenever someone or a responsible institution is criticised, it is like a gate of lions has been open. No one is there to write down what the critics are aimed at so that from it, things get improved. The changes that lately occured in Portugal were in demand of EU directives and not of Portugal's own initiative in response to its own misery. That is to say, for what the EU doesn't decide, things are out of hand and the only thing that people do is to murmur to each as if there is no power enough to change the course of the matters. There is no culture of real checks and balances in Portugal. The politicians, the media who are suppose to balance tensions, are unreachable. The media is not there to intermediate the relationship between the politicians and people but to serve the politicians. The kind of pressure that we see in other countries between the media and politicians doesn't exist in Portugal nor in Italy, of course (Berlusconi). The sad thing about it is that at least in Italy, we hear people complaining, demonstrating about it but in Portugal, people are sleeping. With this "safe" behaviour, things will never change and Portugal will remain last in everything in Europe. One thing leads to the other. If the bossy, intransigent and knowing better attitude prevails, there will be no space nor entrance for a wind of change.How about starting by answering people's application on the internet? In my experience and of other friends, they don't answer to application mails or at least they don't do it instantly. Are they more busy than the more hectic countries such as England, Germany, where you get an answer in a reasonabe time? Or is it the mentality, the little power that it has been attributed to someone and that one takes it all over to him/herself?
In 2007, the Minister of Economy, among other reasons was suggested to demit himself because he suggested the truth to the Chinese. On his visit to China, among other reasons to attract China's investment in Portugal he claimed that the Portuguese salaries were one of the lowest in EU. We never then knew the results of that visit, but what came across was that those particular negotiations had to be nuled.
In times of crises, we should leave bullshit behind and foccus on what is important.
Greece had no other choice but to allow massive chinese investment, including controlling a major part of its ports. Save the economy and reduce unecessary pre-conceptions, prejudices or superior/inferior complex.Thanks for your wishes, Castro, all is smooth now.
reply
pubblicato da Utente eliminato in Portogallo forum
Hi Belinda,
Well I took some time reading all these posts.Besides Portugal i have lived in Italy and Netherlands. As i see the question each country has its own racism level. I don't know how it can be measured but as soon as the country feels threatened by the inflow of foreigners ( as soon as the incomers are starting to bring more cos than pros) then it is likely that a kind of unpleasant formal (i,e national laws) and informal behaviour (i.e, people perceiving that foreigners are worsening "their own" country) start to influence the country attitudes towards forms of discrimination.
Every country has its own level of discrimination that will vary according to several factors: welfare and social indicators of a country, social openness of its people, experiences in life etc etc...Now applying this frame of view to Portugal, what we have is the following:
a)You say you cannot find a job even though you are high qualified. You should also have in consideration that Portugal is not the best country for a high qualified job: We are one of the last countries among EU15 in terms of economical and social development. We also have one of the highest unemployment rate of qualified people in the EU.
b)When you mention that the jobs offered to colour people are more to African Countries that is partially because colour people normally have double nationality and thus it is easier for them to get working visas for African countries.
To answer the question of why dark skin people are often not seen in "good job positions", you first have to present evidence: b1) the amount of dark skin people in qualified positions vs non-dark skin portion; b2) the amount of qualified dark skin people in unemployment vs non-dark skin portion
If one judges from its own experience then we may not be seeing the overall picture. Often the general reality is differently from what one perceives...(if what matters more is reality or what one perceives, is then a different thing)
One of the consequences of living in a country with poor economical and social development indicators is that even if you have the free education for everyone,you cant still eliminate the social differences: If you come from a disadvantageous family/position, you will never get too much (in terms of education or whatever) as if you did while not having other problems to deal with in life.c)You also cannot make one out of many. Just as you have people who do not socialize, because they think they belong to other social category or whatever reason,you also have people who are open and communicative and friendly. Besides that, one has to understand why people behave in a unfriendly way: what makes you friendly or not, largely depends on what you have experience and what you re now experiencing in life.
Finally as racism is everywhere , the best thing one has to do is to understand why people end up developing forms of racism and unpleasant behaviour towards others.
If you re really, as you said you were, an international student that lived in other countries and experienced many things that the average Portuguese citizen could never experience, then you should also be wise enough to step back and see the general picture.well...but I also understand your frustration.
Good luck,
David...
pubblicato da Belinda Angelino in Portogallo forum
I haven't mention anything about Spain being more tolerant than Portugal. No where.
Racism is everywhere, true. But why are you neglecting Portugal's colonial responsibility? What is wrong with admitting higher educated people that speak the same language, with even the same accent? To its colonial history, it is a shame that dark skinned people are not to be found in real intellectaul jobs in Portugal. This is what I've been talking about here.
Portugal the most racist country in Europe? Where did you see me suggesting that?Racism in Portugal
pubblicato da michaela renate in Portogallo forum
Human being ist rasistic in generally when we look around in this world not only in portugal; kosovo, france, in the same Afrika.
In some parts of the world people are killing each other for to have diferent language, colour of skin, religion, thinking or less reason.
May be Obama will change something. the first time we have a black pesident of united states. But, too, in us there is a lot of rasicm already.
The key is the education , socialisation, of little children by their parents. but the society, social behaviour needs generations for to change.I dont think you are uderstanding my posts
pubblicato da Susie M. in Portogallo forum
I used my province of Quebec (who have seperatists who want to leave Canada) as an example of a real place where Anglos, immigrants and foreigners who are in the minority have a problem breaking in to the higher echelons of the work force. Over here, if you have an English sounding family name, its your kiss of death. You make it sound like stuff like this only happens in Portugal when its quite common just about everywhere. Im too lazy to go back and check, but it may have also been you who stated that Spain wasnt as bad as Portugal. Spain, the country where fans monkey chanted black football players and who still have parades where people like Sergio Ramos put on black face to comemorate kicking out the Moors hundreds of years ago? Lets be serious, here. If you want to tell me that nepotism is a problem in Portugal, I will agree with you. If you want to tell me that Portugal is more racist than any other European society, Id tell you to get a grip on reality.
and
pubblicato da Belinda Angelino in Portogallo forum
And I'm talking about Portugal, with colonial history, with Portuguese people getting good jobs in Africa. Not because they are better quailified than the natives, but because the chances are open.
It is well known how reistent Portugal is towards integrating intellectual foreighners....
pubblicato da Belinda Angelino in Portogallo forum
It may not mean in Canada.
In Portugal, driving a taxi is a huge achievement.Comprehension trouble?
pubblicato da Susie M. in Portogallo forum
I was critisizing your generalisations. You are basing your assumption that the country is racist on anecdotal evidence. So I used the same kind of anecdotal evidence to make a case for it not being as bad as you claim. What is the problem? Im sure you'll find that any country you choose to live in, you will have trouble finding high end jobs when you are the minority in the population. This happens everywhere and not just in Portugal. I invite you to come to Quebec, where I live and where there is heavy racism against people who arent "francais de souche" and see how hard it is for you to find a job. But that still doesnt mean that all French Canadians are racist or that all minorities are stuck in low end jobs.
To Susie
pubblicato da Belinda Angelino in Portogallo forum
In my family, in your family there are black, white, Indian and yellow people. This doesn't sumarise the State of the Union. I'm not here to talk about whether you choose to hang around with other races. Read the tittle of the forum again and you will see that this has nothing to do with tolerance in your family or anyone else's family/circle.
stereotypes
pubblicato da Susie M. in Portogallo forum
I cant speak for everyone Portuguese but I find you make some very unfair generalisations in your posts. In my Portuguese extended family, none of my sibblings nor my cousins, are married to other Portuguese people. My nephew and niece are half black (their father is Jamaican) and when my nephew was three, we all took him to the Azores on holiday to visit family and he wasnt treated any differently than any other child there. He was actually very spoiled by everybody. Oddly enough, the only person who made a big deal about his racial mix was a cousin of my mother's who lived in the United States for most of his life. Please dont paint the whole country as being racist just based on your experience. That is wrong.