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Why is it so hard to make friends in Switzerland??

Geplaatst in Zwitserland forum

Is it just me or is it really hard to find some people in Switzerland who are willing to make good friends with you (especially to foreigners)??
I've been there for only 6 months and I heard you need at least 3 months to completely settle down there so maybe I've been there just too short...what do you think?

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  • Daniel Novo

    geplaatst door  in Zwitserland forum 

    First things first.

    If you look at my post you would notice that I was addressing it to Andy, who was making the point that Switzerland is the most international, tolerant, country in the world. And I did point some reason why that argument can't be made. All of which still stand regardless of your effort. MAybe 10 to 20 years is really underestimating. The right estimation might've been 30 to 40. I just thought that the miscegenation coincided - which normally does - with the reactionary outburst of nationalism that started some 10 to 20 years ago here Switzerland. Otherwise I stand behind all my points.

    My opinion as to why it is so difficult to make friends in Switzerland, particularly, is that Swiss people mostly - not all - are introverted. Mainly people out of some small Dorf incrusted on a fairly isolated mountain.

    I have adapted myself very well here in Switzerland. Or yet eingelebt - that's the best word to which a translation makes little sense. I like to think that is because I've came here open hearted. But I don't expect my colleagues to become my friends. At least not to my definition of friends that goes beyond common interests.

    cheers.

  • geplaatst door  in Zwitserland forum 

    Dear Daniel

    You are mixing up things in order to hold on to your "conspiracy theory"... And maybe it would be wise if you took a history book, my dear friend!

    First of all I never talked about miscegenation between people from French speaking Switzerland and German speaking Switzerland! I gave you some examples of real miscegenation which you apparantly ignored. I was born in 1964, 46 years ago. My father is from France (not French speaking Switzerland!) and my mother is Swiss. I am therefore - like many other Swiss - a product of miscegenation. A lot of friends in the Kindergarten and in Primary School were kids of mixed couples. That is more than 10 or 20 years ago...

    You are stating yourself that miscegenation in South America started with the arrival of the Europeans; this would be the year 1500 in the case of Brazil. You know as well as I do that at that time the Europeans considered the locals as a minor race or even as animals and that in fact the miscegenation between the two races was not something "fancy" at the beginning of the colonization. And still nowadays in nearly all Latin American countries there is a big difference between the social classes which often is defined by the colour of the skin. Or tell me... as you are all equal in Brazil... why has there never been a black or dark skinned president in you country but on the other hand mostly black or dark skinned football players in your (excellent) national team??? And why do you speak yourself of "ruling classes" in your post if all are apparantly equal in your country???

    On the other side the history of the miscegenation on our continent and especially in Switzerland is far older than in the Americas. The ancestors of your nation were still living a more or less peaceful life in the jungle and on the coasts without knowing what was going to happen to them a couple of centuries later while Europe was already going trough all kind of struggles and a continuous natural or policital motivated migration within Eurasia.

    Take the telephone directory of Switzerland and you will find a lot of foreign names. And even a lot of the names that might seem tipical Swiss to you have a foreign background. Or check out the history of some of the famous Swiss brands like Nestlé, Brown Boveri, Roche, Novartis or Swatch and you will realize that they all have roots in other countries. Again, that is more than 10 or 20 years ago...

    You write: "A person can be born in Switzerland and still not have no right to Swiss citizenship." I am sorry, but this statement is wrong! It is correct that you do not become automatically Swiss being born in Switzerland. But it is not correct that "you have NO RIGHTS to Swiss citizenship". As you say you have to go through some bureaucratic procedures. It is mainly in the Americas where you use birthright citizenship or the so called "Jus soli". In nearly all the rest of the world however the "objective nationality" applies and it is therefore mainly your idea that this different procedure "constitutes a flagrant contradiction to the most revered ideal in Western democracies"... Paradoxely you can live in some Latin American countries for years without getting the citizenship even if you feel more Latin American than your original citizenship. And of course if you finally get the citizenship you also have to go through a lot of bureaucratic procedures that are not more and not less ridicolous than the ones used in Switzerland.

    The title of the thread is "Why is it so hard to make friends in Switzerland?" and now you are even involving the barbaric killing of the native nations in the Americas in this discussion... Come on, stick to the topic or open a new thread about the injustice in the Americas! And anyway: Switzerland never had any colonies or went out to conquer other nations.

    And to your information; I have lived 14 years in Latin America and I have travelled to South America, unfortunately never to Brazil yet.

    After reading a couple of posts I have found the answer to the question "Why is it so hard to make friends in Switzerland?" for most of the foreign participants in this thread. The answer is easy: You spend to much energy complaining about the Swiss system, the way of life in Switzerland and comparing things with your own country instead of trying to understand the Swiss and the Swiss way of life and somehow adapt to some local customs or behaviours.

    * * *

    "Wer reisen will, muss zunächst Liebe zu Land und Leute mitbringen, zumindest keine Voreingenommenheit. Er muss guten Willen haben, das Gute zu finden anstatt es durch Vergleiche tot zu machen."
    Theodor Fontane (1819 -1898)

    "Die eigentlichen Entdeckungsreisen bestehen nicht im Kennenlernen neuer Landstriche, sondern darin, etwas mit anderen Augen zu sehen."
    Marcel Proust (1871-1922)

    "Der verborgene Sinn des Reisens ist es, Heimweh zu haben"
    Erich Kästner (1899 - 1974)

    "Jede Kultur ist anders, aber niemals falsch."
    Autor Unbekannt

  • Daniel Novo

    geplaatst door  in Zwitserland forum 

    Miscegenation. There has been in the last 10 to 20 years some miscegenation here in Switzerland. Historically, however, not even the original French, Italian and German nationalities endeavoured a great deal of miscegenation even though technically a French Swiss married to a German Swiss can’t be regarded as miscegenation. It might seem to you as though this is some standard of miscegenation but if you look at South America where since the arrival of the first Europeans there has been miscegenation you will see that what has happened here in Switzerland only recently is really nothing. Definitely not enough to erupt cultural barriers and make of the people living in this country, all, regardless of who there parents were, Swiss. You see, I as a Brazilian can’t even tell you my ethnic origins. I know there are definitely Europeans on the mix, because I am fair skinned, but my Grandpa’s mom was the blued daughter of a German and a Tupinambá. In Brazil it doesn’t even make sense to talk of race let alone anti-racism.

    Institutionally. A person can be born in Switzerland and still not have no right to Swiss citizenship. They have to undergo what can only be described as a ridiculous screening to prove themselves worthy of this higher quality. That alone constitutes a flagrant contradiction to the most revered ideal in Western democracies – too bad it is only an ideal – that “all are created equal”.

    Foreigners being treated like shit! You probably never went to South America, otherwise you would notice that the better of people living there are “foreigners”. At some point in time, somewhere out of Europe, they have come either as colonizers or as just people trying to make a living and have been received in way that nowadays they are the ruling classes. Meanwhile they have barbarically killed the native nations of the continent not to mention they have uprooted and enslaved native people from a different continent and left them to their misery in America.

    Maybe you should pick up some history books. Maybe you should go to Peru or Bolivia and talk to a Quechua or a Aymara about tolerance.

    By the way, I've been in Switzerland for 4 years now. I speak very well German. I have lots of Swiss colleagues. But you see for them to my friends I would've to be one of them. Which clearly I will never be.

    Cheers.

  • geplaatst door  in Zwitserland forum 

    Hello Daniel

    I really have no problems with critical comments about Switzerland but saying things like "There is virtually no miscegenation. All are kept apart. Even institutionally they are kept apart." is a lot of rubbish and tells me that you have either never lived in Switzerland or just do not understand or do not want to understand Switzerland.

    No miscegenation???? My Swiss mother is married to a French man. I am married to a Mexican woman. My last girlfriend before getting married was from Bangladesh, before that I went out with a girl from Korea. My cousin is married to a woman of the Philippines. My oncle is married to a Spanish woman. One of my best friends is married to a Brazilian woman, another one to a woman of Colombia. My best friend at school had a Italian father. The owner of my flat is married to a girl from Germany. - There are thousands of examples like that in Switzerland. I would even say that it is hard nowadays in our country to find families without foreigners or foreign roots. If you do not notice it then it is surely because all those foreigners integrated themselves and therefore you do not consider them foreigners anymore.

    And please tell me why they should be "institutionally" kept apart. There is absolutely no law in Switzerland that keeps foreigners institutionally apart. The opposite is the case. There is for instance an "Anti-Rassismus-Gesetz" that forbids any racist comments against foreigners. If you as a Brazilian are insulted in a racist way by a Swiss citizen you can put charge against him. Further on the Swiss government offers free language classes for foreigners that newly arrive to Switzerland. And why don't you have a look at a Swiss migration office? The people working there speak several languages and foreigners are usually treated with dignity and respect. I doubt... no, I know that this is completely different in most other countries of the world especially in North- and South America where you have less rights as a foreigner and where you are often treated like a piece of shit.

    And you really want to tell me that you are all equal in South America? Please, give me a break! You know that this is not true. There is a big difference between the social classes in most of the South American countries and - to use your vocabulary - there is not a lot of "miscegenation" between those social classes. You are racists with your own people! Something that has always shocked me in Latin America.

    Again, I repeat what I said in an earlier post. No matter in what country you live, you will have to adapt to certain rules, customs or behaviours in order to make new friends. You can't expect the people from your host country to adapt themselves to your rules, customs o behaviours. If I go to live in Brazil one day, then I will have to learn Portuguese and I will have to adapt to the Brazilian way of life if I want to be sure to make new friends there!

  • Daniel Novo

    To Andy

    geplaatst door  Daniel Novo in Zwitserland forum 

    Hi Andy,

    First, it is a myth that Switzerland is "the most international country in the west". If you look at the American Continent you will see that along with all the European nationalities present in Switzerland, there are Asians, Africans and, although scarce, Native Americans. If you look at South America you will even notice that all these different nationalities got mixed.

    Furthermore, all nationalities present here in Switzerland are fragmented into their own communities. There is virtually no miscegenation. All are kept apart. Even institutionally they are kept apart. Differences are heightened instead of communalities celebrated. At core, this is what makes it so difficult to make friends in Switzerland, particularly, or in Europe generally.

    I can’t really say whether that is also the same in Africa or Asia. What I can say is that in America, especially, South America it is easy to make friends because at hear we know we are all equals.

    cheers.

  • Ga naar Andy Rosinger's profiel

    What's the matter

    geplaatst door  Andy Rosinger in Zwitserland forum 

    Hi Jim,

    Just in case that you live in Switzerland: Did you ask your self why swiss people maybe ignore some people? I agree with you, it can be hard to find new friends far away from home, especially in our country. However, most people make sooner or later new friends, others will fail. As Herve said every fifth person living in our country is a foreigner and they come from all over the world. So we are more international than any other country in western civilization and we all live together in a friendly enviroment. Talk open minded to the people on the street and try to learn something new. It helps both sides.
    At least, people do not like others whoin common say "the people and this country would be sick and they would need help
    I do also not in general state that most americans are fat and uneducated ignorant people who do not even have a health care insurance and do live in tents on the street.

  • geplaatst door  in Zwitserland forum 

    Hi Jim - The topic of this thread is "Why is it so hard to make friends in Switzerland??" Well, you know, saying things like "The swiss are sick people and they really need help." or "Switzerland ... is nothing but hell for foreigners and everybody in the world should know this." doesn't really make it easier if you really want to make friends.

    Every fifth person living in Switzerland is a foreigner. I doubt that this number would be that high if Switzerland really would be as terrible as you say. In fact, my wife is Mexican and she prefers to live in Switzerland than in her own country. That's why we will be moving back to Switzerland in the next couple of months.

    That is actually what you should do in case that you live in Switzerland: just move to another country where you will feel more comfortable and less frustrated instead of complaining all the time. But reading your posts I get the feeling that you belong to the category of people who will always complain wherever they live.

  • Ga naar Jim Jackson's profiel

    geplaatst door  in Zwitserland forum 

    Hello Herve,

    PLEASE do not compare Mexico to Switzerland!!! it is a big insult to mexicans and their beautifull country.In fact do NOT compare any country to Switzerland!!!! this is not fair.
    I find it hard to beleive you have lived in many other places, because if you did you will be talking differently about this shiety country as many many people on this forum would agree, including some open minded suiss folks.

    Sorry if we are being too honest Herve!!
    Jim

  • geplaatst door  in Zwitserland forum 

    Reading all those comments one could think that Switzerland is the worst place on earth for living... I wonder why you all live there, folks?!?

    I know how it feels to live in a foreign country, I have lived in many different countries most far more exotic than Switzerland, right now I live in México. I think there is one basic rule that you should respect in all countries if you want to make friends: when in Rome do as the Romans or when in Switzerland do as the Swiss.

    If you go to Switzerland or any other place and expect the people to do what you want them to do, to behave the way that you would like them to behave... then it will never work! And its not their fault in the first place, but yours!

    I can not complain about people in Saudi-Arabia beeing unfriendly if I do not make an effort to speak Arabic, I can not expect Mexican people to be open for me if I look at them as a nation of siesta-makers, I should not be surprised if Japanese people avoid me if I hug and kiss friends that they introduce to me etc.

    To all the complainers.. Try to understand the customs and behaviors of the country you are living in, in this case Switzerland and don't make the mistake to expect them to understand your customs and behaviors. ; )

  • geplaatst door  in Zwitserland forum 

    Hey folks,
    I can only agree with claudio and I can't believe that this discussion is still ongoing (look at the start of this post, 18 months ago i posted there my opinion....).

    Well, accept that Switzerland is different than your home country:)

    Matthias

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