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Racism in Germany - how bad is it?

இங்கு போஸ்ட் செய்யப்பட்டுள்ளது ஜெர்ம்னிஅமைப்பு

I just read a story on Spiegel online which shocked me: According to a new study, more than 14% of German teenagers can be considered as "anti-foreigners", while more than 5% fall into the category of the righ extreme with Nazi-tendencies.

Surprisingly, the bad reputation of foreigners seems to be higher in those regions with little foreigners (so those regions where people don't even know what they talk about!!!).

The original article is here: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,613844,00.h
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To me - this is just another example of human ignorance, but for a foreigners living in Germany, these numbers are pretty scary!

What are your opinions and personal experiences with the way Germans see foreigners?

Blizzy Everhard

  • T Yஇன் profile க்கு செல்லுங்கள்

    போஸ்ட் செய்யப்பட்டது  அதில் ஜெர்ம்னிஅமைப்பு 

    It's hard to immigrate to Canada, but that's how Canada keeps its society working. It's not a matter of how loose the immigration policy is in each country. When the society stop functioning properly because of the immigrants, the people will naturally resent the immigrants who meanwhile don't contribute to the society but to milk the social benefits and in return they would be hated. No one wins. That's why immigration still works in Canada.

    If you read my posts, I have been saying Canada is a nation of immigrants while Germany and other European nations aren't, that's why implementing the same multiculturalism in Europe will only backfire. Because of the unwanted immigration policy and multiculturalism, racism is on the rise in Europe. It's ridiculous to expect the Europeans to live the way north Americans do where people of all corners of the globe came to live, despite with many flaws. And in addition to that, Europe has way too lax immigration policy.

    And again, if you read my earlier posts, you'll know I speak German quasi fluently. The reason why I couldn't take it anymore in Germany was because of their mentality. I don't blame them. I don't blame them. They never want so many immigrants, but now they are stuck with them and about to lose its identity. Multiculturalism just doesn't work in Europe, especially in Germany. Even other white Europeans often talk about unfriendly Germans, while it might be true, but it is also because the Germans just want to be left alone in their own environment, and people in every nation should have a say in their immigration policy, and they don't. Naturally they tend to foster hatred towards the immigrants.

  • போஸ்ட் செய்யப்பட்டது  அதில் ஜெர்ம்னிஅமைப்பு 

    In Canada they say it takes at least 5-6 years to adjust in Canada and if you go back to your country as you think its hard to cope with this challenge then you are failed, so I also say 3 years are too less to adjust in one country. Also may I ask you whether your German is as fluent as your English, lets chat on skype. In Canada you cannot get immigration if you don't speak good English or French...and how many immigrants in Germany speak good German? How you know the culture or the true German soul/mentality if you don't learn their language.

    Secondly you are missing the whole point, Canada is immigrant country while Germany is not. Canada has too selfish immigration policies they do not want Roma, they are even trying to pass a bill which will give them more liberty to return asylum seeker back to their country. Canada had done this before with people from Sri-Lanka and Latin America. Soon illegal refugees and asylum claimants will no longer be able to obtain supplementary health benefits, this is what last month Immigration Minister Jason Kenney has said. He also called them "bogus asylum claimants". If a German or any European minister calls this to asylum seekers then they are racist huh? I honor Germany and even many other European countries who give immediate support to asylum seekers and do not discriminate them only because they are not educated. Regardless of their background or political status everyone is eligible for health care in Germany.

    Financially Germany is already getting too much burden, being non German I'm also not happy to pay solidarity tax for East Germans, I've to pay for Greece and later for Ireland, Spain and Portugal. If Canadians have to pay for Americans then I'll say how many people will cheer this. Canadians are even not ready to pay what they took from Chinese as head tax and how much they pay to people from whom they have stolen the land???

    If you're educated, speak fluent German and positively ready to integrate then you will also rise high. We've example of prof Mitra holding top position in HD university, in every university you will find non German prof. IPS GmbH a big company run by an Indian. In hospitals you will find non German doctors and nurses. Day before yesterday they hired an Indian as Deutche Bank CEO. Even in CDU party you will find Turks. Health minister of Germany is Vietnamese by race.

    True Germans and other Europeans are not ready for multiculturalism as they only get 99% of illiterate asylum seekers. While Canada screens and selects the best educated or financially sound business class immigrant. If Canada only gets what Europe gets then I'll see how much Canadian will welcome that. Even for educated immigrants anti-immigrant sentiment is already rising in Canadian then what will they do if they get countless numbers of asylum seekers who even cannot speak one word in German or write their name.

    As compare to Canada Germany has far better political and financial programs for asylum seekers, which include free education, language, better housing, health, social and economic benefits. Now its up to these asylum seeker (immigrants) who want to improve their lives by learning language and working ...and if they don't do that then every German has a right to complain...

  • போஸ்ட் செய்யப்பட்டது  அதில் ஜெர்ம்னிஅமைப்பு 

    Canada wants work force of highly educated skilled immigrants or people who bring big checks to investment are also very welcome, so people who got there within these 2 categories; their children are better educated and the reason is: internationally professional trained immigrants came to Canada for better future of their children and no matter if they had to work as security guard or cab driver they still wanted their children to get better education. Actually I've also seen that many immigrants took the challenge and said that they came to Canada for better life but they did not get a decent job (due to the barriers I mentioned in my last post) so they wanted that their children will achieve what they could not. I've seen several immigrants who have 2 or 3 jobs as you know tuition fee in Canada is too high.

    White immigrants who came there centuries ago, have not seen any challenge so for them if without higher education they are still holding the higher posts then why to bother paying so much money for school fee or simply why waste time when uncle Tom will hire my kid as a manager.

    In Germany its different, you will meet so many people with double PhD titles and its not because education is free here. German by nature love to read books and fond of literature, you will hardly find any white Canadian reading a book in subway or train, while Germans you may hardly find any place where they are not reading. And the immigrants who come to Germany are actually asylum seekers, (same in Spain), they are those who are very less educated actually most of them are illiterate. Canada screens immigrants and only takes the cream/best while Germany and Spain have no choice they both are not immigrant countries but both countries have soft policies for asylum seekers. If Spain and Germany will put the barriers like Canada for Roma people then they will be called racist but if Canada does then its fine.

  • T Yஇன் profile க்கு செல்லுங்கள்

    போஸ்ட் செய்யப்பட்டது  அதில் ஜெர்ம்னிஅமைப்பு 

    One guy who defines racial comedy... Russel Peters!

  • T Yஇன் profile க்கு செல்லுங்கள்

    போஸ்ட் செய்யப்பட்டது  அதில் ஜெர்ம்னிஅமைப்பு 

    Let me remind you that I once was an immigrant in Canada. I have also worked with countless immigrants who were determined to work harder than the Canadians and be successful. And for those who make a significant effort in Canada or the US, the opportunities are there. And that is the difference between north America and Europe. I can't speak for all the European countries, but I lived in Germany for almost 3 years, and I can compare the lives of immigrants in Germany and the ones in Canada. You can keep bringing up all the numbers to prove there's still racism in Canada, which I don't disagree with you on, it all comes down to the willingness of the people to accept immigrants into their society, regardless of how much tax payers money the government is pouring into assissting immigrants.

    And as a visible minority myself, I never felt like a second class citizen in Toronto whereas in Germany, I was reminded daily in one way or another, that I wasn't welcome there for many reasons.

    If you think th life is hard for immigrants in Canada, then you have no idea what it's like to be a minority in Germany.

    I try not to blame the Germans for being racist since they are also the victims of forced multiculturalism. But it pisses me off whenever I hear Germany is a great place to live for foreigners. it may be so for Caucasians, but for visible minorities, things are a lot different.

    As for the employment preferential treatment, in every country, employers will always prefer locals, not based on the racial backgrounds. So as an employer, I'd pick a Chinese Canadian or Pakistani Canadian over a Spaniard or a Dutch staight from Europe. At least from what I have seen, being local means more than the racial backgrounds.

  • போஸ்ட் செய்யப்பட்டது  அதில் ஜெர்ம்னிஅமைப்பு 

    " that Canadian-born persons of colour tend to be better educated than Canadian-born Whites."

    Do you know why? this seems strange so I'm curious as to why it may be than way.

  • போஸ்ட் செய்யப்பட்டது  அதில் ஜெர்ம்னிஅமைப்பு 

    Comedians who are not racist will make racial jokes while on stage or in movies, and this does not mean they are racist BUT when vulgar racist terms are used in the joke, then that definitely increases the chances of the person being a racist. A non-racist person will usually refrain from using vulgar words to describe an entire race (to whom he does not belong).

    On a safe side most comedians keep racist jokes to their own culture…….many comedians who are known due to making people laugh–in this mix of people you have Jewish, Women, Latin, Black and Asian.

  • போஸ்ட் செய்யப்பட்டது  அதில் ஜெர்ம்னிஅமைப்பு 

    I belong to social and human rights sector this is why I see many nasty things which not every Canadian can see or observe.

    I don't disagree that Germans not racists but my argument is that Canadians and other nations are too. Did you forget last year's survey when we had mayor elections in Toronto, they found a quite high level of anti-immigration sentiment among people. Ok lets not touch Pakistani taxi cab drivers (although all are highly qualified people and came to Canada as internationally trained professionals). If Canada is so open then why it has a big time problem with Roma moving to Canada and you know for this reason Canada has a constant diplomatic conflict/relation with Czech Republic. Ok forget this issue, I want to come back to your claim about "Everyone feels equal in Canada" as everyone gets equal opportunities.

    You wont trust me then read this survey, its done by NARCC and not anyone else, this is why I say self-denial will take us no where.: http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/cerd/docs/ngos/narcc-ne
    w.pdf

    1. Economic Inequality & Racialized Poverty of Women in Canada
    Aboriginal, racialized and immigrant women, are disproportionately poor, when
    compared to other Canadian women, and to their male counterparts. In 2000 36% of Aboriginal women, 23% of immigrant women, 29% of visible minorities, and 26% of women with disabilities lived in poverty. In 2003 19% of senior women lived in
    poverty.125 Many of these groups intersect.

    2. The following are Statistics Canada Census 2001 average annual income and even in recent years nothing has been improved figures126:
    - Average for all Canadian men: $36,865
    - Visible minority men: $28,929
    - Men with disabilities: $26,890
    - Average for all Canadian women: $22,885
    - Aboriginal men: $21,958
    - Visible minority women: $20,043
    - Women with disabilities: $17,230
    - Aboriginal women: $16,519

    3. Racism is still a major barrier to employment: Many employers and managers make
    assumptions about work habits, suitability of certain types of work and ability to "fit in" on the basis of race.

    More evidences to become realistic:
    4. Racialized groups in Canada generally have higher education levels than non-racialized groups, yet their employment and income levels trail well behind. While they make up 12% of the Canadian population, they are only 5.9% of government employees and 3% of executives. Blacks, South Asians and other people of colour generally have lower employment statuses than Canadians of English and French backgrounds, even when controlling for education level. About half of university graduates from racial minority communities find professional employment compared to two thirds of White graduates. Within this group, racialized persons earned approximately $7 000 less than White graduates.

    5. It must also be remembered that Canadian-born persons of colour tend to be better educated than Canadian-born Whites. Of men belonging to racialized groups, only 46% have pensions, compared to 57% of other male workers. Among those with equivalent education, 38 per cent of Canadian-born Whites ranked in the top income quintile, compared to 29 per cent of Canadian-born people of colour.
    In Toronto, over 50% of families in some racialized groups live below the official low income cut-off. Among White ethnic groups, the rate is less than 10%.

    6. They all find employment one way or the other but not in field of their own specialty and ironically not for the skills for which they qualified to be an immigrant to Canada in the first place. So in one stroke “we” have de-skilled those people who “we” chose as “suitable” immigrants for Canada while not resolving the issue of shortages of labour in those fields for which we chose them.

    7. Although several institutions are charged with ensuring equity and a discrimination-free society, very few elected officials or senior representatives of organizations speak out against racist views and comments. In fact, many of the comments that marginalize racially identified communities come from elected representatives. (i.e Betty Granger, Canadian Member of Parliament, Roy Bailey, Last mayor of Toronto, Mel Lastman.)

    Despite a notion that Canada is a ‘tolerant’ and welcoming country where overt forms of racism are unacceptable, there are many systemic ways in which racism operates under the guise of other issues, such as the consideration of credentials, exclusion in workplace networks, and more favourable treatment of people from the dominant group. Furthermore, the concept of ‘tolerance’ is rarely problematized as to its clearly condescending undertone. For to ‘tolerate’ others in no way establishes that they are one’s equals, but maintains a notion that racialized persons are fortunate when the superior dominant group decides to put up with them. And the list goes on...

    I've witnessed racism and discrimination in Canadian work place and I can give you several examples and names. This is the reason I say, you are sitting 1000s of miles away from Germany and complaining about German racism and at home you have several examples of racism but you simply deny it...or does it mean you're part of that system that you hardly observe all above given racism and discrimination issues...???

  • போஸ்ட் செய்யப்பட்டது  அதில் ஜெர்ம்னிஅமைப்பு 

    I agree with you that Spain doesn't like that culture and therefore it doesn't like the people that belong to that culture. If they happen to be of a different race, that's just a coincidence. But yes, what is disliked is the culture, not the race in itself.

    I agree also that maybe a racist person will make lots of jokes about that, maybe or maybe not , but it's possible.

    But I don't agree that telling 'racist' jokes makes you racist. I also think it's stupid that you can make jokes about your own group but not others.

    Examples. Larry David from Curb your enthusiasm. I believe he is Jewish and boy does he make fun of Jews. Almost in every episode. Do you think he is anti Semite? I think he is just funny.

    Or Bill Maher when he made the joke about noises in theaters not letting him hear what black people are shouting at the screen. He is not a racist, he is funny. And he was making a joke about something that is true, for whatever reason.

    Society is just too sensitive

  • போஸ்ட் செய்யப்பட்டது  அதில் ஜெர்ம்னிஅமைப்பு 

    A racist person will often make jokes based on race, particularly in terms of races other then their own. But a racist person will usually tell racial jokes more than other types of jokes, and will usually exhibit one of the other signs like you mentioned about stretching of the eyes. A joke that touches on a particular stereotype is a perfect example of a racial joke.

ஒரு பதிலை போஸ்ட் செய்யவும்