Δημοσιεύτηκε σε φόρουμ Ελβετία
Is it just me or is it really hard to find some people in Switzerland who are willing to make good friends with you (especially to foreigners)??
I've been there for only 6 months and I heard you need at least 3 months to completely settle down there so maybe I've been there just too short...what do you think?
Διαγραμμένος χρήστης
Na, can't do other than disagree
Δημοσιεύτηκε από Roger B σε φόρουμ Ελβετία
Well, actually your characterisation of the Swiss law is factually wrong. Everybody's got the same basic rights in Switzerland, constitutionaly secured and valid for both Swiss and foreigners. Of course, as with any other democratic country on this planet, there are some departures from that. Political rights (such as the right to vote or be elected) only accrue to the Swiss citizens, but that's the same as in the US (or since when do I have the right to vote in the US if I'm not a US citizen?). However, everyone's got the right to express his or her opinion and engage in political activity, be he/she Swiss or non-Swiss. So unless you base your statement on the political rights, where an exception that rights accrue only to the Swiss is very normal in my opinion, laws in Switzerland are universally applicable to everyone (even the upcoming extradition-initiative does not change that). There is one big, and sad, exception to this general rule that concerns Minarets (I'm not happy about the outcome of that vote, but as a good citizen I accept the result and will gladly support its overturning by vote). Which brings me to the characterization of the UDC/SVP (actually one is just the French accronym the other the same in German). Is it at times a fear-mongering, nativist party? You bet, but is it outright racist or defamating? Nope, labeling them that way is too simple. With the SVP it's not black or white, it's a party with many gray scales. In many ways they can be almost libertarian only to take a very, very conservative and etatist position in another. They are provocative and know full right how to exploit certain concerns within the population. Concerns, I'm honest to say, the other major partys just gloss over and don't address. This gives the SVP an aura of pro-activity rather than reactivity as for the others (hence the claim that they're the only party doing something). But being policitally successful through catering to the fears of people is not really a phenomenon exclussively reserved to Switzerland. If you think so, let's talk about the tea party and the likes of Glen Beck and Sarah Palin for a moment, or about Arizona immigration laws... you see, fear-mongering as a political strategy is a hot commodity at the moment. Plus, one can sense that there is a certain un-ease of people bout the frequency and significance of immigration, problems that were downplayed for too long by the mainstream so that the unease now errupts into things like the anti-minaret thing.
What's that BS about publishing "racist" pictures in public places? Ok, our laws allow parties to make political statements in public places through flyers etc, but unlike the US for instance, our laws ban political TV-ads and robo-calls (no "it's 2am in the White House" ad). Granted, the SVP's ads are extem, aggressive and tasteles, but the guys know exactly how to stirr up a controversy (and most of the other parties fall into the trap of wanting to attacke the SVP on it, instead of ignoring them and let the ads speak for themselves, no, they validate the whole thing by debating, being labeled as weaklings by the SVP in the process). Plus the ads, if they really were racist, would be outlawed (we have an anti-difamation law in Switzerland too), so while they might be considered tasteless, they, under a legal-perspecitve, certainly are not racist.
And last but not least, Switzerland is an open and liberal country. You can say what you want, this includes some comments bordering on the incinerating or diffamating. Therefore, the SVP/UDC does have the right to express its opinion as do the communists. A mature democracy should be able to cope with that.
About Switzerland
Δημοσιεύτηκε από Jim Jackson σε φόρουμ Ελβετία
I agree with most of what you said Roger, however the Swiiss law works and benefits the swiss and the swiss ONLY. Too many laws decided also by very racist parties such as UDC, this is very unfortunate, For those people who do not know UDC, this is a very racist party in Switzerland that hates foreigners and anybody that does not look or behave like a swiss . The UDC publishes vey racist pictures in public places such as train stations ( this by the way, will be very illegal in the US and other civilised countries). This party is leaded by the Hitler of Switzerland.
Swiss people are boring
Δημοσιεύτηκε από Jim Jackson σε φόρουμ Ελβετία
Herve, You always have the same arguments and you really know the facts!!! Why can't admit that the swiss people are really different from the rest of the people in the whole world? Can't you read what people from ALL OVER teh world are saying? Most people agree that the Swiss are boring, racists, very selfish and a bunch of paysants !!! You know it is true and you try to camouflage the facts or you are simply another swiss just like them?? You simplty do not see what's worng or you are paid by the swiss government to change people views on this forum by defnding this stupid country? Well, good luck !
Yeah..whatever
Δημοσιεύτηκε από Roger B σε φόρουμ Ελβετία
Of course you're right Jim, this is all a big conspiracy by the Swiss Government... actually our government does have nothing else to do than paying someone to sit in front of a computer all day replying to negative posts, especially on such very important web-pages as justlanded. I think I should create my own militia to defend my constitutional rights against this government...
Look, Jim, I'm sorry for whatever has happened to you in Switzerland. I guess that there is nothing I can say to change your mind about my country (probably I'm an agent of the government too, right?).
Let me just put one thing straight for all the others reading. Does Switzerland have racists? You bet it does, as do other countries, be it the US (KKK anyone?), Russia or France! So Switzerland surely is not the happy land of multi-culturalism, but it's not the proto-racist hell on earth Jim wants you to believe it is. It might not be the shining city on the hill either, but what country is? Sole difference between Switzerland and its neighbours in terms of foreigners and immigration is that in Switzerland, people actually have a very direct say when it comes to such topics. In what other country (with the notable exception of the State of California - technically not even a "country" ) do the citizens have not only the right to elect their governments but also vote on referendas and constitutional initiatives at least every quarter? Where citizens have the right to bring to the table almost anything that concerns them and, provided they get enough signatures togehter, have everyone vote about it? Or what other country has the system that it is for the citizens to decide, in an open and fair vote, who should be awarded the Swiss citizenship? In Germany, France, Italy or Austria, the sole medium through which people can voice their dissatisfaction with government is the ordinary elections (except in rare cases) held every four or five years. About things like the anti-minaret initiative or the soon to be voted on "deportation" initiative the French, German or Italian citizens, to name a few, simply do not have a direct say. In other words, direct democracy also tends to expose the direct fears and insecurities of people. It's not always good and I'm surely not always happy about the outcome, but at least it leads to an immediate feedback.
the Swiss are very racist . They hate everybody including themeselves
Δημοσιεύτηκε από Jim Jackson σε φόρουμ Ελβετία
Dear Brian,
I fully agree with you and don't let the swiss people in this forum fool you since some of them work for the swiss goverment and they are paid to promote their stupid country. I lived there too and I hated it because of their stupid, ignorent, racist people and government. Just see how many people of these forums agree on one fact: The Swiss are racist and hate everybody including themselves.
Jimhi back
Δημοσιεύτηκε από Roger B σε φόρουμ Ελβετία
your welcome... by the way, grüezi rather means "hi" :-)
Actually, I didn't mean to say you should completely avoid talking politics. If you're asked about something or if you feel comfortable raising political topics with someone, go for it. It won't hurt, actually it can be quite interesting. It's just that some topics might not be adequate to start a conversation with (very much dependant on your counterpart too). However, this doesn't mean you should outright avoid it.
So good luck & have fun in Switzerland
Cheers
Rogerhi
Δημοσιεύτηκε από Διαγραμμένος χρήστης σε φόρουμ Ελβετία
hi roger thanks for the tips! i did'nt knew that you could'nt really talk about politics in switzerland, i don't think it's a problem in belgium, you can acctualy say what you want about politics here.. and i don't know much about the swiss politics and the history yet, but it's good that you mentioned it, now i will start learning some things about your beautifull country! i'm really looking forward moving to switzerland!
and yes, i'm flemish speaking,and i've already started some basic german lessons on youtube :D! i can't speak it yet, but it's not so difficult to understand, i think it's really similar to flemish except for some words and grammar but that would be no problem, i hope! i've noticed when i went to Chur at first i could'nt understand a word of what they were saying but by the end of my stay i could understand most of it, so i guess if i be there for some weeks or moths it wil come,
and yes i've already got to know some of her friends, and they were all really friendly, i did'nt meet a closed or cold swiss during my stay, so i really don't know what all these people are talking about, and if i'll get a job i'll get to know some other people too i guess,
thanks for your interest!
Grüezi! :D
new in switzerland!!
Δημοσιεύτηκε από antonio cruz σε φόρουμ Ελβετία
HI everybody i'm new in this website and also i'm going to be new in switzerland I have a weird story, I'm from Guadalajara Mexico I have lived in long beach California, iowa, Los Cabos (Mexico) Vancouver and also in Cancun.
I met my girlfriend here in Cancun she is from Lausanne ,she came for the school and unfortunately she had to go
I said it is a weird story because we were in loved so I decide to go to switzerland to follow her, I don't want to make a long story the point is that her parents doesn't want me to be there and she still at school and i don't have a place to arrived I'm wondering if some of you know a very cheap place like a hostel or if some of you have a place in your house to be there for a while untill I found the way to be with my girl I don't care if is not in Lausanne could be in Zurich.
If you have something just let me know thank you!good to hear your story
Δημοσιεύτηκε από Roger B σε φόρουμ Ελβετία
Hi alexander, it's really good to hear your story for a change. I personally think that Chur is a quite charming place to live. It's like the enterance point to the Alps (good in the winter), from Chur you're in Zurich within an hour and there are plenty of cool places to go in the city.
So what's it all about people talking about the Swiss as cold, narrow minded and unfriendly? Well, first I don't think one should mistaken a certain personal distance as unfriendlyness, the Swiss can be quite reserved and sport a "mind-your-own-business" attitude (ok, that probably qualifies somewhat as "narrow mindedness"). As said though, this kind of behaviour does not mean that they are unfriendly or racist, it's just that they generally require a healthy dose of effort if you want to get to know them really. Most Swiss are very proud, but are raised in a way not to show this overtly (says something about the reservation I'd say), unlike say for instance the Americans, but nonetheless, most people appreciate if you show some interest about our history and culture (personally, I sure do). This however does not mean that you need to be an expert in every single aspect from Swiss history to politics, but take some time at least to look into it (I think this is a common mistake especially expats make when comming to Switzerland. Often, at least from what I can observe, they show a certain lack of interest which then translates into reservation by the Swiss - we are not just low tax and internationality). If you know something about history and politics, do however try to stay neutral and don't delve into thorny issues (probably this is the same in Belgium... I probably shouldn't talk outright politics right?).
I think the fact that your girlfriend lives in Chur should make it easier for you to connect. However, be aware that not all Swiss are that fluent in English, most speak a basic level of it, but it might make conversations somewhat difficult. Be sure though to try and integrate into your GF network (as a quick entrance), with young people this should be far easier than say if you were in your 40ies.
Speaking of language, I assume you are a Flemish speaker? Well, this gives you a certain headstart over, say, romanic languages. I would first start learning ordinary German (maybe through a language school) and try to pick up Swiss German through the people around you. Be aware though that Swiss German is not a standardized language, varying from region to region (for instance, peops in Chur speak a different form of Swiss German than I do in Zurich). Depending on your current level of German you can pick up a few words of Swiss German quite easily.
So enjoy your time in Chur
Cheers
Roger