Publisert i Tyskland forum
Many of my foreign friends who live in Germany complain that Germans are very rude - or at least unfriendly.
Obviously, as a German myself I don't really experience us that way. But I would like your opinion: Are we really as cold as some people say????
G.M.
innsent av N W i Tyskland forum
I think the problems comes from 2 different points of view. You are offend by directness or honesty when someone directly speaks to you but try to hide your feelings with a smile whereas German manners what conclude directly addressing the other one with one's feelings. So we would reply in not a harsh but honest way. Hey, you offended me with that kind of saying. For example, if a German is confronted for some kind of rude or aggressive behaviour with being a Nazi, he would in some way directly say, hey I feel offended you calling me a Nazi. So you should do the same. You are not going to be able to change German behavior but you can describe your feelings. You should not conclude from our directness or rudeness that we are cold and bad people but that we simply don't know that we offended you with that sort of behavior. So just simply say, "Hey, that was offensive!" "Hey, du hast mir damit wehgetan!"
You are right Americans are more open and more lets say liberal than Europeans and especially Germans but they pay a high price for that to in America losing your job, your financial basis is a lot tougher than in any other western state. Freedom does also often mean less security, not police security, but financial security. A welfare state in an extent in which it is really helpful is only possible in a society that is less liberal and more state-oriented. It gives a lot of people a second chance and was acctually invented in Germany (but that's another story). You cover that (in a European point of view) lack with personal welfare and non-governmental organisations that is what lacks in Germany and makes society for outsiders more impersonal and anonymous. Minding anothers business is another way (in my opinion worse way) of avoiding being offend but nonetheless typically German. It has one advantage: you are not directly confronted with problems of other people that you don't know. The state deals with it whereas you simply don't care. I don't like this behavior. In Munich, for example when you walk through the inner city you won't see beggars. They are forbidden to beg in the inner city. We care only when someone tells us that we should. So tell them when you are offended and I will tell you a lot of Germans would have pangs of remorse. Except some bunch of aholes that exist in every society. I did it a lot of times as well and it helps to come along quite easily.
boring
innsent av Joe Bob i Tyskland forum
Thx! People who search Nazi culture will find Nazi culture. I am sorry for all the people who have problems in germany! I am not proud of my country! I am just happy that I am born here ;)
GM
innsent av Laurie Perkins i Tyskland forum
No problem, I didn't take offense :-) I am truly sorry that you are having difficulties there. And I don't know all the ends and outs of your situation....so I can only offer general suggestions without knowing all the fine details. But the problem is a lot like men and women.....the thought process is so very different. My tolerance comes from understanding my own ignorance about a culture I did not grow up in and visa a versa, you know? I simply pick my battles and when I think something is directly targeted at me then I will defend myself however when I see something is said because of the generalization imposed on "Americans" then I leave it alone. Sometimes the best thing to do is simply let it rest. They say the proof is in the pudding, right?
The indifference towards foreigners may be there for a lot of reasons. I know a lot of Germans resent the huge taxation imposed on them and often feel their country spends a lot of "their" money helping out other countries, also Germany is a tiny country and much of it is over populated. Like you said, all countries are in a big mess including the US.
Hang in there!!!!!!
GM
innsent av Laurie Perkins i Tyskland forum
By no means do I pity them. But regardless of what someone thinks or does....at the end of the day I know who I am. What i was trying to so clumsily say, is you going at all this the wrong way. Clean the slate and start fresh!
I am not in your shoes and I don't know what the surrounding dynamics are in your situation with your German family. Like I said to you before, they should be your buffer, if they are not, figure out why.
There is nothing wrong with being assertive. But you can catch more flies with honey any day. Obviously what you are doing is not working...right? So change your plan. Go at it another direction. It is you who is living there and wanting to know how survive it. if you are always on the defense you will be always hit with opposition. I can assure you of that no matter where you live.
Sure you can be rude and condescending and sit on the opposing side at each opportunity that arises,and claim everyone is doing it, so why not me? But exactly what do you gain in the end?
My comment about the history channel was meant only to drive home that we all have preconceived ideas about other cultures and after awhile we come to know them only as we see it over and over again.. And in my opinion your troubles have a whole lot to do with that.
GM
innsent av Laurie Perkins i Tyskland forum
It is not "you" against the "Germans" But it sounds that way. The hang up is that you are very "American" and they are very "German". You are expecting them to react to you as others would react to you in the US. it is not going to happen.
It is noble that you gave up your life here in the US for your wife and it is bad that you have health issues now. But I think the way it comes across is.....after all I gave my great country, the "US", where I am sure I could find a great job, and now that I'm in Germany I am sick (implying to some degree that your health is bad because you live in Germany and your lifestyle is less than it was when you lived in the US) Your comments "talk down". I am by no means saying that you shouldn't be a little disappointed that others don't see or appreciate what you have done.
German's in "general" are direct and blunt. They don't see it as being rude, they see it as being direct and honest. Americans are all about "feelings" and not hurting anyone. We in general will respond with much thought to how our reply will be taken and because we "American" are so concern about our response we often "sugar coat" or not exactly say it like it is. Not because we are liars but because don't want to offend. Do you see the "clash" You are expecting an American response from Germans and is not going to happen.
I have spent countless hours in conversations with Germans. I don't live there, have been there a couple of times. I am not going to say that all those conversation were perfect. Some of them offended me, because of how the Americans are viewed. However, I allowed those speaking to me to have their thoughts and kept in mind as they spoke that they were being direct and to the point not to hurt me but to express their views. I didn't take it personally. I agreed with them on some points and I reminded them also that every country has its problems. I personally did not care to list what I thought was wrong with Germany. I simply allowed them to speak their minds and try to see how they would come to this or that conclusion. Then by simply being myself, they learned (by themselves) that perhaps "not" all Americans were as they perceived.
There are many things to praise the Germans about and if the Germans came here to visit they would have many nice things to say about the US. Germans "in general" don't know exactly how Americans think....they get information from the media and movies... stereotypical things...just like when you turn on the history channel here and all "we Americans" see is history on the WW!! and Hitler. When I was visiting Germany I had my friend take me to one of the old cemeteries and viewed many of the young soldiers that lost their lives in the horrible war. We stood together hand and hand.... an American and a German and laughed because if we had known each other in the 40's we would have been considered enemies.
Now I may be an odd bird but I view all mankind as precious regardless of their geographical location. I see also that each country and/or their culture has something to offer "but after all I am an American living in the US in a huge salad bowl surrounded with every kind of culture differences imaginable. It works here, because we are "taught" early on to be tolerant of others. That we are free to think and do as we like. "An everything goes" mentality.
GM be an American and keep your mind open. Use the tolerance that you were brought up with. Don't try to argue yourself into their grace....won't happen! Time will take care of most of your problems. Accept the criticism by simply listening and use your American smile as your response. Allow them to be proud of their country and share with you what makes them special. It is really interesting to hear what they think and most of them will share this with you. Germany has come a long way over the years and survived a lot. They are generally hardworking, loyal, honest people.......Give it a try and take a step back
what
innsent av Joe Bob i Tyskland forum
The first sentence is really good but I am not surprised, American people are annoying like German!
I want to go to Vanuatu!!!The second sentence is a bit confusing....
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innsent av Joe Bob i Tyskland forum
Some people are always annoying, sometimes some more (in every country)
Open your mind to other culture
innsent av Slettet bruker i Tyskland forum
German are cool just present yourself in a positive way...