Pubblicato in Svizzera forum
Is it just me or is it really hard to find some people in Switzerland who are willing to make good friends with you (especially to foreigners)??
I've been there for only 6 months and I heard you need at least 3 months to completely settle down there so maybe I've been there just too short...what do you think?
Utente eliminato
The Swiss and their friends
pubblicato da Roger B in Svizzera forum
Hi Cannuck,
Well, when I read through your post, I actually was not all that surprised that you encounter difficulties making friends in Switzerland. Truth to be told, this situation does not just apply to foreigners but also to us Swiss. In my opinion, we Swiss are rather a reserved, sceptical people. The following I don't right to try to refute you opinion. It's your opinion and you are entiteld to it. I just want to point out some peculiar things about the Swiss.
Usually it's hard to really get to know people in Switzerland. You mention that most our friends hail from school or village, well, have you ever thought about why this is? I believe that one reason is that you are fairly long together in school and get to know each other quite well (and bonding is easier for children). As for number of friends, I'd say most Swiss don't have too many "real" friends, people with whom they talk personal stuff. Usually what you'd have is the type of rather shallow friendships you describe. That's not to say that Swiss can't make any "true" friends after their childhood, not at all, many Swiss find some of their "soulmates" later on, but usually the best friends really are those you've know for a long time (I doubt that this is any different in other countries).
It's in my opinion also quite normal that one has to put a big effort into making friends in Switzerland. However, I think that's also due to a certain character trait of the Swiss... being reserved. This reservation does not necessarily hail from distrust, contempt or anything, it's more a sign of not wanting to bother someone too much. In a rather crooked way it's the desire not to step on someone's foot. That the Swiss have a propensity for this you can hear if you talk with them about other nationals, such as the Germans. Most of the time what you get to hear are complaints that they are too direct, too pushy and don't respect the Swiss culture. I'm not saying this is true, but I think the sole fact that people mention this tells you something about how deeply entrenched this reflex for cherishing a hands-off approach is. However, I still believe that as a foreigner you have a certain advantage you could use for making friends. Most of the Swiss I know are quite open about foreigners (except for certain kinds, but I guess that's been discussed already and I'll shortly get to that) but are too shy or reserved to come forward (for instance, they think their English isn't good enough for communication or don't want to come forward as artificial).
I also think the situation I described can easily lead to the impression that we don't like foreigners. But that is certainly something that I can't observe. I work in a very international company, with people from different countries (granted, most of them are Westerners). None of them have, even after me questioning them about this topic, said they were subject to racism or resentment (most don't even speak German). To be frank, I don't say there is no racism in Switzerland, there surely is. Are the Swiss somewhat sceptical about immigration? You bet. But mostly this attitude is constrained to certain people. The Swiss usually don't have problems with fellow Westerners (except maybe with Germans, at least in the Swiss German speaking part). I sense that people from Eastern and Middle Europe, Africa and Latin America have more problems. I don't want to defend the ugly rascism surfacing from time to time, but one also has to state clearly that Switzerland has a huge percentage of foreigners (30% of the population) and therefore is prone to problems associated with this topic. And that certains kinds of other nationalities don't have a super reputation may not entirely be the fault of the Swiss. In certain cases the venomous combination of numbers, lack of integration and opportunity have led to a downward spiral of resentment, making it for neither party, Swiss or foreign resident easy to break out.
Oh, and about not being self-critical: I don't know any other country that is so keen on making things right and constantly criticse itself, some times to monsterous proportions. What the Swiss generally don't like however, is when someone from outside the country criticises us... in general that leads to some sort of defiance.
Now, what can you do! I think the idea of getting into touch with a Canadian-Swiss-Group isn't all that bad. Through this you can get into touch with people, share experiences etc. Another thing you can do is try to get involved in some club (sport, reading whatever) or use what possibilities you have in your work place. Probably you won't make any "true and tested" friends instantly, as I said, we sometimes are a bit hesitant, but after a while this can evolve. And don't be put off by the reservation, it's not a sign of contempt, mostly it's a sign of insecurity or shyness. Ah yes, and for the trouble with the Gemeinde... that's a problem I hear of quite often. They are bureaucrats in the end and they are never easy to deal with. But don't let loose.
Sorry
pubblicato da D DF in Svizzera forum
Hi Canuck
you have my deepest sympathy, I was born swiss , but raised in South Africa & then relocated back when I was 13. I couldnt speak german or swiss german properly & it was hell...your are right with everything you say, but hey.. I take it that this is the first country you have immigrated to...
perhaps you might try to remember the world doesnt rotate around you, but hey to the swiss the world rotates around them! also dont forget, like in any other place there are the ignorant & when you live in such a small country, have never travelled, except to italy for a holiday,they dont know otherwise...
try to stop being the victim & fight them, give them a smile each day, & try to lighten the conversation & perhaps even ask them if they dont like you or if they really dislike foreigners. ps. do this with light in you eyes & a smile.
btw, if you are living in the german speaking part & have a french accent... that will be a problem. But hey if you really dont like it in switzerland, grab your hubby & move back to canada or alternatively, forget about the peeps & take what switzerland has to offer, enjoy the sport, the safety & security, the money & the certificate.. believe me if you show a work/education certificate anywhere in the world they are impressed... take the good & forget the rest...
again dont forget you are scaring the hell out of them with your worldliness & slaping their narrow mindedness in their face (even if you arnt, they perceive it so)
ps. see if there isnt a swiss/canadian association somewhere close or any other english speaking one
Keep your head up & hey remember its not about you, its about what your soul has to learn & this is maybe it...
all the best.canuck
pubblicato da mark conrad ravanzo in Svizzera forum
wow. i see. but i think you dont need a visa because your a canadian...but for us Filipinos i think we need to. haiz. thank you very much! by the way. i have lots of friends from canada because they went her in the country last May for a youth activity called Global Youth Network. I dont know if you know it. hehehe. anyways. thanks. indeed canadian are soooo friendly!
@ mark
pubblicato da canuck s in Svizzera forum
well, when i came from canada to switzerland the first time, it was just as a tourist. I stayed for 3 months. But I didn't work. I'm not sure what your role will be at this youth meeting. :) If you're not getting paid, you shouldn't need a visa. I would still ask your embassy tho. Better to be safe than sorry. :)
canuck
pubblicato da mark conrad ravanzo in Svizzera forum
canuck,
thank you so much for the reply. my companion went to the embassy last time and they gave him a paper that has requirements of applying a visa. HE was not able to talk to the person in charge and just gave the paper. ARE YOU SURE??? because if its true and i dont need to worry now. thank you so much and hoping to hear from you and otherss too.
Mark
To Mark
pubblicato da canuck s in Svizzera forum
Hi Mark,
As long as you are entering Switzerland as a tourist, for a period less than 3 months, you don't need a visa. If you are still unclear, contact the Swiss Consular in your region. :)
i need help.
pubblicato da mark conrad ravanzo in Svizzera forum
hi. i am from the philippines and i need help. Ill be attending a youth conference in switzerland on august 1 to 8 but i am worried about getting a visa. i would like to know what is the least time i can get a swiss visa? my passport is still in the process of renewal and ill be getting it still on the 12th of july. im worried i might not have enough time to apply for a visa. Is there an expedite or rush visa application that i can avail? i badly need a reply. thank you very much.
if you arnt swiss, you arnt good enough
pubblicato da D DF in Svizzera forum
Hi, s
everyone is right.. but maybe you need to understand, that we, the swiss, live to work... & perhaps nobody noticed,,, gravity is strange in switzerland...
also, if look at the history of the founding of the country, you will notice that still today we have a 'farmers' attitude... hard working & petty. ie. worried someone else will get what we want
But agostino moretti, are you italian by nationality, there are lots of great italians there...
Your best bet, join a soccor team or the alfa romeo car groups &
Drinks lots or start sm.... king... that latter will definetly accept you.
ps. I am talking about the german speaking part..
pps. I also move to south africa & will return when I am old only
Hey, good luck, dont despair & enjoy the business attitude & quality of living...
remember, the grass is always greener on the other side....reply
pubblicato da canuck s in Svizzera forum
ok, so with all due respect i am going to go back to the original question of this thread, as well as give a short overview of my situation, in hopes of maybe getting some tips on udnerstanding swiss mentality without having to turn into a negative depressed and constantly griping expat.
i moved here 2 years ago, i was really positive and looking forward to experiencing something new. i soon learned that the mentality here is very different than back home and that it is harder to make friends. Ive noticed that the people here (wether they be swiss or something else) tend to be very reserved, apprehensive and even suspicious when you try to make friends. I've experienced people being nice enough to my face if i happen to be around, but would never of their own accord ask me to go out because i am not swiss and i don't fit in with their swiss friends. These people all grew up in the same set of villages, have all their friends from school and dorf and have absolutely no interest in forging new friendships, not even on a superficial level. I've finally finally managed to make 2 friends (i guess more acquaintances) after totally going out of my way. I've noticed it takes alot more than being friendly and nice and humourous, you have to totally take initiative and keep at it. But why is this so? I find it sad that this village mentality is so predominant (somewhat akin to small town mentality in canada). People miss out on great experiences just because they dont like and or are suspicious of foreigners. And Canada has tons of foreigerns, Ive never had a problem there.
And just a few other comments. Right after I landed here, I was told I better change my name because i sound "too jugo" and would never find a job. And the Gemeinde and the Migrations Amt treated me like shit, took over a year to give me my bpass which was my right after i married. That delay prohibited me from working, which messed up my integration in many different ways.They never apologized or made recompense for their mistake, they just blamed everyone else. They even told me that Canada "solte sich anpassen" to Switzerland because Switzerland has a larger population. Is what the Gemeinde guy said. No even kidding. This is the ignorance I have had to deal with. I never recieved any support of any kind, not financial or language course or otherwise. I never even recieved an explanation about the rules or laws or anything here. I had to discover eveything the hard way. Where is the support for immigrants, this infamous care package that every asylant seems to get? Or maybe even just a booklet that explains what I need, the laws, etc? I think its a crock of shit to say that every foreigner here gets everything on a silver platter, because the Behörden here did nothing but set me back. If i would have known that I would have told my husband to come to me in Canada, where we actually have concrete supports set in place to help immigrants integrate while retaining their culture. Oh yes, can you believe it? You can shoot your obligatorisch 300 m in Canada too. It just seems sad to me that the swiss can be so unfriendly, when i came to this country without any negative intentions. Now that i've made an effort to integrate, speak german, etc, i still cant get any slack from the swiss. And i understand that slagging a country and being constantly negative is bad, (even though this country totally screwed me over) but you cant look at anything critically here, that will get you shot. Canadians are the first to tell you whats wrong with their country, laugh about it, and then try to make it better. For everyone, not just themselves!
To all swiss people reading this who actually have an interest in being befriended with foreigens, kudos to you! I would like to hear something other than all the reasons my opinion is wrong (even if it is based on my experiences). I know there are awesome cool swiss people out there! Sadly the majority reigns.Your own theories are based on emotions and not on facts!
pubblicato da Utente eliminato in Svizzera forum
Hello Daniel
My last post was referring to your last post that was adressed to me and not to Andy... ; )
Coming back to your favourite subject: the miscegenation in Switzerland. Now your new estimation is 30 to 40 years eventhough I told you that it started centuries ago. Again; you should really study the history books first before coming out with your own theories about Switzerland that are unfortunately often wrong.
You say that you "just thought that the miscegenation coincided - which normally does - with the reactionary outburst of nationalism that started some 10 to 20 years ago here in Switzerland". First of all I think that the expression "reactionary outburst of nationalism" is inappropriate because it does not reflect the mayority of the Swiss population and your number is again incorrect. I guess you have never heard about the Schwarzenbach-Initiative. Well, check it out and you will find out that what you call "outburst of nationalism" has existed before your time frame. And it has not only existed in the last century but in many centuries before, and not only in Switzerland but in most of Central Europe.
Again, migration and miscegenation to/in Switzerland has existed for centuries and here are just a few examples as your historical background only seems to reach back to the 1990ies.
-> In the late 16th and 17th century French Huguenots came in large numbers to Switzerland. They brought the textile and watch industry to Switzerland.
-> In the 1850es people from Italy started to come to Switzerland in large numbers. A lot of them worked in the Gotthard Tunnel construction in the late 19th century, in the 20th century a lot of Italians worked in construction of houses and roads.
-> In 1956 thousands of Hungarian refugees came to Switzerland and started a new life here.
-> In the Sixties thousands of Tibetians refugees arrived in the Sixties (by the way approved by the Swiss government eventhough China was protesting!). There are aproximately 2'500 Tibetians living in Switzerland. This is the largest Tibetian community outside Asia!
-> In the Eighties 35'000 Tamils from Sri Lanka came to Switzerland.
Or have a guess how many foreigners were living in Basel in 1900, 110 years ago? 40%!!!
Well, as you can imagine a lot of those people married Swiss people and formed part of the miscegenation that started long, long time ago...
There is however a important difference between the miscegenation or rather the immigration of the last 10 to 20 years and the ones I mention above and this might be a partial explanation for some recent racist reactions in Switzerland.
In the past immigrants came to Switzerland to find work or a new home. They were peaceful and thankful to find a new place for living and tried to live in harmony with each other and the Swiss.
But we have a new situation now in Switzerland and Europe. For the last decades we had a lot of foreigners/refugees that have been brought to Switzerland by organisations that earn money with the transportation of people. A lot of those foreigners do not really come with the intention to adapt in any way to the Swiss way of life, they do not even think of working, because they know that the Swiss law and system will supply them with an apartment, food or money. This service is paid by the Swiss tax payer and as the number of profiteers has significally increased in the last years you get more and more nationalist and racist reactions and acts in Switzerland and the rest of Europe.